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I have a kitchen with a cathedral ceiling and a track lighting fixture in it. The light quality is poor, not to mention the fashion sense. I'd like to put in some recessed can lights and maybe a pendant light hanging over the island - nothing revolutionary, everybody does it. My question is, if I hire an electrician, is there some magic trick to routing wiring to the recessed lamps? Obviously no attic access and I'm sure we'll have to drill through some rafters to fish the wire through. I should mention that the ceiling also has a popcorn texture which my wife despises. I've sort of learned to ignore it, but I have scraped off the texture in other rooms and this one is due, so if I have to mess with the drywall, at least I know I'm already on the road to a smooth ceiling.
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There are angled cans made for that but they are quite a bit more $ than the regular ones.
Running the wire... Well depends on lots of things. You can use a flex drill to try and drill through from can to can depending on how far they are. It's not easy and not always works. Older houses like ours are built out of wood that was cut down somewhere around 1900 and that was good lumber and today it's hard as a rock. I have used my flex bits and one hole through one 2x will burn up the bit. I can then take that bit and use it in new lumber and drill all day like it's butter cause lumber now is super soft.
What will happen is you may end up with several access holes here and there that the electrician used to drill holes and pull wire throuh. It's not a no damage install by any means. This is why I won't do residential except for my own or a few others.
It's a good time to let someone come in put the cans in wire it then have a drywaller remove the texture patch the holes and skim coat it.
I personally don't like texture on walls. Every room I have to do major work in gets skim coated and smooth walls. Ceilings are the hardest. Our kitchen ceiling isn't perfectly smooth. It has imperfections here and there but it looks a billion times better than he texture did.
Also it's easy to fix smooth but nearly impossible to match texture.
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Putting cans in a cathedral ceiling will really compromise the insulation. I think I'd be very wary of it. It could really affect your heating bill.
Matt
If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.
-Jack Handy
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EatenByLimestone said:
Putting cans in a cathedral ceiling will really compromise the insulation. I think I'd be very wary of it. It could really affect your heating bill.
This. I'd be real worried about the problems it could cause, like ice dams.
Mike
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
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Thanks guys. I hadn't considered the heat loss angle. I think my rafters are 2x8 so about 7 1/2 clearance. I wonder if LED cans are available that are more shallow than typical? Seems like you ought to be able to make them pretty compact.
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If they are 2x8 then you won't have enough clearence. Go to the store and ask about the cans you would use and then look at them. You'll see they are quite deep. You need at least 2" of foam, preferably 4" (or more) between the top of the can and the roof deck.
I helped my friend put ~30 cans into his cathedral ceiling and we used 4" foam boxes. All winter there was zero sign of any can heating up the roof deck. He checked for it often. If a can leaks air/heat, it is very easy see on the roof deck where it melts the frost and or snow.
As for insulation one just makes a box out of 2" thick foam. Glue the pieces together with foam adhesive and it gets put into the space above the light can. 4" of foam (2 layers) makes for a box that is rock solid impermeable to air leaks and air leaks are what causes loss of heat and thus ice dams. As the drywall is put up spray foam is also put on the drywall/foam box interface to seal up any gap.
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ed kerns said:
Thanks guys. I hadn't considered the heat loss angle. I think my rafters are 2x8 so about 7 1/2 clearance. I wonder if LED cans are available that are more shallow than typical? Seems like you ought to be able to make them pretty compact.
Your would think they would make really short cans for leds but they dont. There are short cans but they are still twice as big as they need to be. Noone makes a read can for leds. They are all just making the same old incandescent can fixtures they have made for years. Shallow cans will still be very tight in your application. I have had to cut them down before...
The only thing you've can do is go with 12v fixtures but they are not readily available. In fact your usually have to order them from overseas direct as the lighting industry here is still a decade or more behind the rest of the world like we are in many things...
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Are there other types of lights that looks like can lights but aren't? Maybe something for the track?
Mike
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
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I tried 12V lights for our pendants over our island and after 7 transfomers for 3 lights went bad in 3 years I said enough is enough. I took them back to Muska Lighting (great customer service) where I bought them and they admitted they had had terrible problems with them. They no longer carry those kinds of 12V systems anymore. I got full credit towards going with 120V lights.
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pretty sure Fine Homebuilding had a product announcement of surface mount can replacements. I was hoping they would show up in the BORG, but they haven't yet.
