Walnut table finishing continues......

[Kansas City Fireslayer]

I've always considered myself a very a good finisher but my walnut table top has tested my patiences considerably.  This table base has a white BM Advance base with a GF High Performance topcoat.  It turned out extremely nice and I couldn't be happier.  The chairs will be a black distressed oak windsor from Broyhill.  The bench is also white and the top will be walnut.  

In my search for the perfect finish for this air dried MO walnut, I decided on Arm R Seal.  Naturally, I did some tests on some scraps before applying.  Nonetheless, the red and yellows jumped out hard after the first coat on the table top.  The bench stayed a nice brown. Yes, I know ARS is an amber finish but my test pieces had a lot more brown in them than the majority of the top.  Lesson learned.  I liked this but it just wasn't going to look right to me with the rest of our home.  Personally, I like crystal clear water white finishes and my favorite finish is precat lacquer.  I also like fast drying finishes and it's been a very long time since I've used an oil poly on a project.  That said, the ARS was carefully removed and new rounders were routed after planing/sanding the ARS off.  Yes, it's beautiful but it won't work with the white bases and black chairs in my home.  The combination is something my wife found in an Ethan Allen catalog.  Here's a pic of the walnut load the table was built from and a pic of the ARS on the walnut.  The top was made from the 6/4" thick long boards on the bottom of the stack.

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Here's the chairs and the bases.


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So back to the drawing board and the forums for more reading.  I decided to tackle the heavy red/amber with my tried and tested TransTint dark walnut suspended in DNA.  10ml to 1 drop.  I tested it on some thin laminated air dried MO walnut that I have.  Yes, that's many thin pieces glued up.  I acquired a big load of this and many other domestics from a former craft maker.  I'm pretty sure he ripped, glued and surfaced all of this stuff.  I figured this would be a good test board because it contained many different typical walnut shades--including reds.  This is 2 coats of brushed on TT in the DNA followed by one light coat of rattle can BIN shellac.  I did 1 coat of TT on the other side.


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Now I'm getting somewhere.  Nice deep browns and a great pop against the white bases and WB white oak flooring.  It's also dark enough that it blends well with the black chairs.  I don't know why I didn't do this from the start knowing I like a bit darker and browner walnut.  Must of been the poly fumes.  

I knocked down the shellac and continued with trying Old Masters spanish oak gel stain on a few areas.  This would be a grain filler and impart more darkness.  I did thin it a bit with MS to aid in wiping it all clean.  IMO, it just muddied it and it reminded me of import rubber wood furniture.  I know that may sound ironic given my desire to impart more brown in this air dried walnut.....but it's true.  

So far I liked the TT with a spit coat of shellac.  I have pulled my hair out trying to decide what will be a durable surface for a busy kitchen table, stay clear and water white, and still look beautiful.  I seriously thought about using conversion varnish but it will still scratch relatively easy and there will be some allowed for movement in this 42" wide top.  CV is hard and brittle.  Moving on--I had some GF high performance left so I thought I'd try it as a topcoat.  Based on John T's reviews, I know Eduro clear poly is much better option given the chemical resistance.  I used the HP on the table legs but the top is a completely different story for my household so I will use sprayed WB GF Enduro if this turns out.  I brushed 3 coats on with using a grey scotchbrite pad in-between coats.  I was forced to use 320 on the prior to the last coat because the raised grain was fierce.  I didn't pre raise the grain. The 320 settled it fine before the last coat.  I'm not used to grain raising and I don't like it.

Looking at it 24 hours later, I can't say I'm absolutely in love with it like pre-cat lacquer but it's not bad either.  It doesn't have the clarity of lacquer to say the least but I think it will still serve the walnut well while meeting the demands needed of the family.  I think the DNA with TT followed by the shellac really helped it compared to other walnut samples I made with the WB poly alone.  The color will work very well with the white base, black chairs, and the rest of the house.  I used one coat of TT on the first two samples and two coats on the last two.  There's a small difference but not much.  

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One coat of TT

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One coat of TT

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2 coats of TT

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2 coats of TT.


The difference isn't very pronounced between the two unless you look very close and of course the lighting makes a big difference as does the viewing angle.  I think I will do one crosshatched coat of the same concentration before the clear shellac Seal Coat.  I have a QT of Eduro on the way from Woodworker's Hardware.  Hopefully it will be here soon before I change my mind again.  I know my wife is ready for it to be done......so am I.

[Rob Young]

This formula is on my radar for the next time I build something using walnut:

GF pre-mixed dye : 1 part medium brown + 1 part light brown + 1 part vintage cherry. Should have a just a little touch of amber/orange in it. My (small) walnut stash has a mix of steamed and non-steamed so colors are all over the place. So far I've just used orange and garnet shellac as my color coats on small walnut boxes. Works pretty well but I'd like more options.

I tried a little bit of transtint in alcohol and had too much trouble dealing with the speed at which it flashes. Decided in the future I'd rather deal with grain raising from waterborne dyes than the panic of NGR dyes on anything with more surface area than a small dinner plate. Just doing a small box made me feel like I was rushing too much and worried about streaks.

I like the way the table legs & bench bases came out. And I think you're getting a reasonably even coloration just using the single TT dye with two applications.

[Kansas City Fireslayer]

Rob,

I've never used any of the GF dye stains but I'm sure they are top notch. I try not to venture too far from what works for me so I stick with TT dye whenever possible. My walnut stash colors are all over the place too. A walnut head cabinet maker friend of mine says MO walnut is known for being more red.

Have you ever sprayed TT or NGR dye in DNA, isopropyl or lacquer thinner? Boy, it is super easy even on a large surface. Yes, it costs more than water but it dries quick and you don't get the raised grain. I will still have raised grain with this schedule but I think the DNA may aid in the grain pop some. I think I get better color and grain pop using solvent based dye vs. water in the minimal testing I've done.

I sprayed dye in LT on a large bookcase and a console table and it's very easy to control. Ok, off to Sherwin now in hopes of seal coat.....or off to Metro HW's.

[Rob Young]

Rob,

I've never used any of the GF dye stains but I'm sure they are top notch.  I try not to venture too far from what works for me so I stick with TT dye whenever possible.  My walnut stash colors are all over the place too.  A walnut head cabinet maker friend of mine says MO walnut is known for being more red.  

Have you ever sprayed TT or NGR dye in DNA, isopropyl or lacquer thinner?  Boy, it is super easy even on a large surface.  Yes, it costs more than water but it dries quick and you don't get the raised grain.  I will still have raised grain with this schedule but I think the DNA may aid in the grain pop some.  I think I get better color and grain pop using solvent based dye vs. water in the minimal testing I've done.  

I sprayed dye in LT on a large bookcase and a console table and it's very easy to control.  Ok, off to Sherwin now in hopes of seal coat.....or off to Metro HW's.

Not tried spraying dyes, NGR or H20.  So far, my use of dyes has been minimal but I'm getting more and more interested in using them.  Not so much to try and make poplar look like cherry type stuff, but as a way of enhancing what I've already got.  However, maybe in late September I'll finally get started on a pie-safe design I've been contemplating.  No really large panels but plenty of parts and the reason I've been experimenting with dyes on ash.  It would be a good candidate for spraying the dye.

Grain raising from H2O hasn't been a big deal so far.  I've been pre-raising the grain (cheap spray bottle from the $1 store and a rag) and that's done 99% of the work.  Or, if I've only used a handplane on the surface, I don't bother because a planed surface really doesn't exhibit grain raising the way a sanded surface does.  A scraped surface is sort of in the middle.

Anywho, this summer has been taken up more with experimenting with different finishing techniques than any real project building.  

The stuff in the GF can is essentially the same as that which makes up Transtint.  Except that TT is a concentrate and the GF cans have already been diluted to a working strength.  And I think GF adds just a touch of binder.  Also on my list of dyes to try are the WD Lockwood powders.

[Kansas City Fireslayer]

Rob,

Once you start using dyes I don't think you'll ever go back to a pigmented stain alone.....and this is from a guy who has hand applied many gallons of Minwax OB stain on various species of cabinets. Oh the thought of how many birch cabinets I splotched at one point knowing how I could make them look today. No one knew any different and the builder or homeowner didn't either.

I was a little apprehensive to spray dye at first and I have many trigger hours on a sprayer with paint and lacquer. John T. had mentioned how much easier it was to spray dye and he wasn't kidding. I quickly foam brushed all of my kitchen cabinets with TT dye in water. I sure wish I would of sprayed them now but they still turned exceptionally well as a final product.

Sounds like you guys had a good time spraying finishes at the guild. I would of loved to join you with any one of my 4 sprayers--soon to be 3! I plan on joining the guild soon being I have more free time now. You probably don't know this but my uncle Phil was the secretary of the guild about 12-13 years ago. This was when they were meeting in the Westport basement. I don't think he's a member anymore but he was for many years. More importantly, he still kicks out some really awesome pieces. The guild is a long drive for him and he works a lot of OT.

[Kansas City Fireslayer]

Well I continued on with my finishing schedule yesterday and today.  The GF Eduro clear satin arrived so the wait was finally over.  I ended up using Transtint in dark walnut in DNA--sprayed on--followed by one coat of Seal Coat dewaxed clear shellac.  I knocked that down and then moved on to two "light to medium" coats of the GF Enduro.  I must say that I'm extremely happy with how the tabletop and finishing the walnut has turned out.  Of course the big fear of using a WB topcoat on walnut is making "bland, blah, mute, plastic looking".....or many other things.  I agree, this can happen as it did on the walnut floor inlay I have.  However, I will say this isn't the case with this walnut table top.  

I'm a first time user of the GF Enduro and I will say it is very impressive.  I didn't know what to expect in comparisons to the GF High Performance.  It looks far better, IMO, than the HP does.  To be fair, I did spray the Eduro but I don't know how much of a difference that truly makes.  I shot the Enduro straight out of the can with a 1.8 needle and full air pressure from my 4 stage HVLP.  It atomized and laid down beautifully.  I didn't have a completely "white blue" top when I was finished but I did have a couple stripes where I overlapped a tad much.  No big deal though, it dried with no real visible difference.  The other thing that shocked me was how crystal clear it was.  If someone told me it was lacquer I probably wouldn't of thought twice about it without looking much closer....and the hardness after an hour was also very impressive.  What more can I say, I'm hooked.

Here's a few shots after the first coat.  I stopped at two given the seal coat.  It's about perfect for me, for a kitchen table, and it's a far cry from looking like plastic.  

Here's a wet shot right after I finished.

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And here's a few after it dried.

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This shot doesn't have any lighting enhancement from the iPhone.  It looks really dark here given the angle.  It is darker with the TT dye but not this dark in person.

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Maybe this post will generate a little more discussion than my first one....
  Time to mount this baby.

[Phil Thien]

Well, I really liked that first oil-based finish quite a bit.  But I do understand that it wasn't really the best fit for the dark chairs and white base/bench.

I do like the water-based finish, too.

I think you did what needed to be done to integrate things.

Also, walnut bleaches over time.  So starting with it a little darker (w/ some dye) is never a terrible idea.

I normally hit walnut with Watco Dark Walnut.  Then if I think it needs a little more oil I change to the natural Watco.  After that I'm inclined to use oil-based wipe-on poly.  I've struggled to do a good job with water-based.  Everything I've tried tends to look like plastic.

[Kansas City Fireslayer]

Phil,

When I did my test pieces with foam brushed GF High Performance, I noticed it looked plastic like as well.  It was also much more milky blue and I think this is do to a greater mil coating that the foam brush lays down so it won't "drag" on you which can result in streaks.  I nearly called it a day with one good coat of the Enduro but I decided to do a second as light as I could while still making sure I got 100% coverage.  One area in the middle where I had to change sides and overlap a bit more did get a little milky blue but I can't tell now.  Any more than what I put on would start leaning towards too much thickness for me.  Here's a few more shots I took inside.

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[Joel H.]

Wow!  That is truly magnificent.  

Nothing more I can say,

Joel

[Rob Young]

Looks good!  But might be a bunch of hair caught in the finish in that last photo...