Kitchen cabinet doors

[Aram]

Sorry, I know this has been discussed many times. I can't find the old threads.

It's time to do the doors and drawers for my kitchen cabinets. I'll do the drawers but I'm still on the fence about make or buy the doors. They will be cherry, flat panel.

Two questions.

One, can you remind me who I should go to if I decide to buy them? Sorry, I know this has been posted a million times.

Two, I've always made solid wood flat-panel doors. But some of the doors run wide and the panels wouldn't fit through my machines. Options would be a middle stile and two narrower panels (not the look I really want), or hardwood frame with cherry ply panels. So this is kind of a stupid question, but I only know how to build them out of solid wood. What do you do with plywood panels? Just rabbet the back of the frame and glue them in? Or do you trap them in a groove? Pretty basic but I've never done it.

Thanks!

[JGrout]

first off I am not in the buy doors camp. someone else will have to cover that 

so if you choose to build your own with I highly encourage part of it depends on the look of the frame. If you do cope and stick you will be trapping the panel in the grooves anyway 

Even a Shaker T&G door has a groove so that is pretty much set as well 

I am not a fan of back set panels glued in place I know they are done but I feel if you are going to build a door why not do it with some consideration for ascetics

If you want a deeper set plywood panel just set the groove closer to the back. I do them pretty regular with only a 1/8" at the back using a 1/4" panel 

I am not sure why you think you need more than a 1/4" panel either but if you choose thicker then yes just rabbet the back of the panel and set it in 
the groove

Lastly there are ways to make solid panels wider than your machines can handle but it takes a bit more effort in that you will be gluing twice (Half a panel x2)  and the center seam will need additional work once you get it glued/ It is just a matter of overcoming the fact that it does take one more glue up and you may spend a bit of time scraping and or sanding  to finish it 

Joe

[fredhargis]

With flat panels, I actually prefer using plywood. You can glue it in place in the grooves and have a really robust door. It alos solves some of the other issues you think you have. As for buying doors, I would consider the opposite of what you described: buy the drawer boxes and build the doors....but then I enjoy building doors.

[Joel H.]

I agree with Fred & Joe, I like making doors (and drawers for that matter - the Leigh D4R makes it a breeze).  My thought on very wide doors is they look weird.  I made some doors and drawers for my daughter last year and where the doors were wider than I liked, I added a center muntin (stile).  I just think it looks better.  You can't see all of them, but most doors are single panel, but the ones on either side of the sink are double panel doors.



The beautiful part of the picture is my granddaughter.  

Joel

[jteneyck]

If you want to buy doors try  Raw Doors.   But I would build them, too.  I've built Shaker style flat panel doors with 1/2" veneered MDF in 3/4" thick frames by rabbeting the back of the MDF panel so that it would fit into the dado in the frames and end up about 1/16" inset on the back.    They are beautiful on both sides, flat, very solid, and incredibly strong if you glue it into the frame.   If you cut the panel square the door will be square, too.

I agree with the comment that if the doors are too wide a single panel will not look right, and a center muntin with two panels is the better approach aesthetically.  

John

[Aram]

LIL thanks everyone.

Sure, I can use 1/4" ply. I always thought it had a cheap, tinny feeling when you tap on it, but no other reason not to. In case the next homeowner has to tap on the door panels for some reason. You know.
 

While I'm asking dumb questions -- I've never used a rail and stile bit set. Will be getting one. I notice that Freud's allow the slot to go down to 5.5mm. The cherry ply I have on hand is about 4.9mm. I realize you glue it, so it won't rattle, but still that's a gap. How to handle?

Thanks again.

[Joel H.]

Two choices: 

1.  Glue the panel in the frame.  Doesn't have to be glued all around, just spots will do.
2.  Some people use space balls, I put a rubber band, cut once to make one long piece, in the grooves.  That allows expansion/contraction (not necessary with plywood) of the panel.

Joel

[fredhargis]

I don't know of a real easy way to fix the gap, which is usually a problem with 1/4" or thinner ply (and R/S bits). If you use a thicker ply, like 3/8", you an rabbet it around the edge to fit the groove, if you stay with the 1/4" you can glue some kind of filler strip around the edge. I've had mixed success with that last approach, but it can be made to work. Or you could cut the filler and put it in the groove, then the panel. I suppose you could also put an applied molding on the back side (or front, if you want) to hide the gap. None are ideal, except maybe the thicker ply...and 3/8" isn't real common.

[Aram]

Two choices: 

1.  Glue the panel in the frame.  Doesn't have to be glued all around, just spots will do.
2.  Some people use space balls, I put a rubber band, cut once to make one long piece, in the grooves.  That allows expansion/contraction (not necessary with plywood) of the panel.

Joel

Thanks, Joel. Understood. My concern is about the groove being wider than the plywood. So there would be a small but unsightly gap all around the back side. Thin plywood these days....

[JGrout]

LIL thanks everyone.

Sure, I can use 1/4" ply. I always thought it had a cheap, tinny feeling when you tap on it, but no other reason not to. In case the next homeowner has to tap on the door panels for some reason. You know.
 

While I'm asking dumb questions -- I've never used a rail and stile bit set. Will be getting one. I notice that Freud's allow the slot to go down to 5.5mm. The cherry ply I have on hand is about 4.9mm. I realize you glue it, so it won't rattle,  but still that's a gap. How to handle?

Thanks again.

Well unless the Freud set is a cope and stick and you are doing square (shaker) doors  I would skip the set and build them on the tablesaw 

I agree that your 4.9mm (3/16")will not sound very good when rapped  it is surprising how much better 1/4" sounds when rapped on. This might make a better case for a thicker panel and a back cut in the inside of the door. That way the panel can be made to fit the groove.  problem solved