Let's talk about Water vs Oil Based polys

[yuri]

I like the looks or oil based (OB) polyurethanes and how they behave with time. They bring wood texture to next level, give natural amberish glow and they "age" with time getting even more deeper amber tint. They change the way wood looks before and after. I apply them brushing and that requires some knack, experience and good patience doing it well.
WB polys is completely different and in my experience and only common they have with OB, the word poly. That's it. Finished look, is the thing which most critical to me. Once WB applied and dried they looks like covered with glass on top. No grain pop, water transparent and do not age with time. A lot of people just say that only difference is amber glow, but WB poly does not give that "wet" appearance compare to OB. They say just add some amber color agent to the WB and it will look exactly like OB, but I do not find that true. there is no pop and wet feel to the finish. I do not say that all of them (WB) bad, they have their advantages, but not substitute for OB. Sometime I want to have flat effect to the wood surface and WB is best for that and I use them.
Now, I started to spray finishes and OB usage is under question in that regard, because numerous technical aspects. So WB clear finishes are going to prevail, but I will miss the appearance of OB polys.

Your thoughts on the matter?

[MikeBob]

I donot have extensive experience with WB Polies but I do add some coloring agent to them, and they do bot pop the grain like oil base does, but if the would is stained prior with an oil based stain it will, or a wiping of BLO cut with MS will, then a coat of thinned Shellac, 1.5-2lb cut, then the watered base Poly.

[clockman]

I like the oil based urethane or shellac, waterbased poly just does not seem to look as good.

[jteneyck]

What WB topcoats are you using?  I'm very happy with the GF WB clearcoats I use.  I almost always spray a coat of Sealcoat shellac first.  It seals in any dye or stain I've first applied, eliminates grain raising, and helps make WB varnishes look like OB ones.  GF EnduroVar will age over time similar to OB varnishes.  And Target Coatings EM2000 is an oil modified WB varnish that is said to look like OB varnish, though I have no experience with it.  Have you tried either of these products? 

This is gloss EnduorVar on black walnut, with nothing under it.  I don't think I gave up anything by not using an OB varnish.



John

[yuri]

John,


I compared finishing on bare wood without preparation or enhancements. Just sanded wood applied WB or OB finishes.
As for WB finishes, I used EM2000wvx WB-Alkyd Varnish from Target Coatings and it is no dubs that that varnish looks like WB not OB. Besides I used
   * ZAR Ultra Max Oil Modified Polyurethane
  * Minwax Polycrylic Protective Finish
* Minwax Water Based Oil-Modified Polyurethane
* Varathane WB poly
* Rustoleum WB poly
* Cabot Water-borne Polyurethane
* Hydrocote Polyurethane from Hood Finishing products
and several more I do not remember names.
As far as I remember, Cabot WB poly was closer to OB then others, but still far away.
Guys, please understand me correctly, I do not oppose WB vs OB as one better then other, they are just different. There is a place for each type of the finishes in my use.

[fredhargis]

Finish technology is advancing so rapidly, it's a little hard to keep up with it. But the "modified oil" waterborne formulas are supposed to be much like an oil based varnish (appearance wise and durability wise). I have no idea what that (modified oil) means though I've tried to figure it out. Even shared a few e mails with Flexner and I still am not sure what they are. I've seen Enduro Var referred to as a modified oil finish along with the Target coatings product, but many of the other waterbornes (the strictly acrylic ones) do have some tint in them to mimic the color of oil based finishes...or as someone mentioned, you cold do it yourself.

[jteneyck]

Yuri, if you prefer OB that's fine with me.  I was just saying that I'm happy with the results I get with some WB products.  Since I will only spray shellac and WB products in my basement shop, it was important that I find WB products that work for me.  I hope you are able to find a WB that you are happy with - because OB products will likely be gone within the next 10 years.  Plus, AFAIK, no one is putting any research money into OB products anymore; it's all going into WB.  That's where all your new products will come from.  

John

[MsNomer]

I felt the same way until I tried GF Enduro-Var. I may not ever use OB again.

[cputnam]

Here, in Southern California, OB finish is gone - illegal to buy or use. As noted above, one can get the grain pop of oil base with BLO and then a coating of shellac (of whatever shade and with or without Transtint). John has gotten good enough with his tinting so as to be able to skip messing around with BLO. You might also consider modifying sheen with wax.

[Harold O.]

Here, in Southern California, OB finish is gone - illegal to buy or use. As noted above, one can get the grain pop of oil base with BLO and then a coating of shellac (of whatever shade and with or without Transtint). John has gotten good enough with his tinting so as to be able to skip messing around with BLO. You might also consider modifying sheen with wax.

True that. After a short time, one looses the skills to even apply a decent oil or lacquer-based finish. When traveling to Arizona, I make a point of picking up some brush-on lacquer for specific projects. My state is dumbing down both user and end-user of quality products.