What planes/tools to look for at an antique show?

[®smpr_fi_mac®]

I know I'm likely opening a can of worms by asking this, but here goes!

I'm attending an antiques fair near my house this weekend.  The ad claims over 100 vendors/tables.  The missus wants to go furniture/knick-knack shopping.  New house and all that, after all.

I'm going along and hoping that I might find some folks selling old hand planes and other hand tools.  Once I get my shop up and running, I want to start learning to use hand tools more--especially planes and hand saws for DT's.  I currently own a Stanley #5, two that are #4, I think (a Millers and a Stanley), a #7 jointer, a new (still oiled) Stanley shoulder plane, and a Krenov-style wooden smoother.

I don't own any block planes, routers, groovers, or others.  I know that I want to find a good block plane.  I think I've seen mentioned a Stanley 60 1/2 here before as a good block plane?  Should I hunt for that and/or a different style?  I want a routing plane...I think that's what it's called--a plane for cleaning up the bottom of a dado or groove?

What about hand saws?  I don't know a thing about them yet, so maybe I should wait.  I know I don't want a big rip or cross cut saw--my band and table saws handle that.  I'm thinking of shorter saw for cutting DT's and such.  Any suggestions there?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[DaveParkis]

Here's my $.02. I'd look for a Stanley 60 1/2 (low angle block plane) or similar plane. I think that Millers Falls are under appreciated, but thta's just my opinion. I'd also keep an eye out for any block planes with an adjustable mouth. Check to make sure that the mouth operates smoothly and that there are no chips in the mouth. The router plane will be a bit scarcer, but the Stanley 71 is the most common. These are generally only found with one bit, but you might get lucky and find one with all 3. Saws are a little different. Around here, you can't go to a sale without finding an old Disston or two. For joinery work, I'd be looking for old back saws by Disston, Pease, or Bishop. That said, as long as the plate is straight and its fairly sharp, you should be good to go.

[Admiral]

Vintage chisels and gouges.  In the older ones, the steel is pretty good.  You'd be surprised at how often a good gouge is just the tool for the job.  On saws, well, finding them sharp is sometimes hard, and they will dull with use, and eventually you have to learn that skill.  Look for plates in good enough shape, don't be scared off by surface rust, and sight down the plate to get a straight one.  I bow them and see if they snap back straight, that means they still are tensioned properly.  Don't worry so much about the handles, you're a woodworker, you can fix them.

[Strokes77]

If you're like most of us.  If you see an old WW hand tool, you rescue it.  Buying based on "Need" is no fun at all.

If you can rescue a plane away from someone using it as a decoration, or save someone from painting some kind of horse riding through flowers on a saw plate then you've done the community a service.

Need?  Blah. But follow these simple guidelines.

Buying a Plane - Tip #1 - very thoroughly examine the mouth and up the cheeks for hairline cracks.  Those are most of the time a game over; you'll end up parting it out.  Sometimes you can rub away the dirt/rust whatever with your thumb, and find a problem.  Alot of times you can still not discover this until after it's cleaned; but check it first.  If the mouth is ok, it can be put back to service. Maybe, if the seller doesn't mind, keeping a piece of 100grit sandpaper in your pocket is a good idea? never tried that, didn't even think about it until I was typing this.

Buying Saws - Tip #1 - If the plate is bent, put it down.  Unless your some kind of saw savant it will sit in your saw til, unused, until you sell it or move on to the WW shop in the sky.

[Wilbur Pan]

If you're reasonably comfortable with the bench planes that you have, I'd get a router plane way before I'd get a block plane.

For saws, I'd start with a new saw. Any joinery saw (dovetail saw, tenon saw, etc.) that you'll find at an antiques fair will need sharpening, otherwise using your antiques fair saw is going to be frustrating. Sharpening is something you should learn if you're going to use hand saws, but you might not want to take that on right off the bat.

[hbmcc]

Excellent points from Wilbur. 

Also, because you plan to complement the power tools you have with hand tools, the key intent is to avoid fiddly setup, or a one-off power scream that wakes the neighborhood at 11pm, or 5am on a weekend. After all most powertoys are derived from hand powered, so the quiet and fast option is out there. And, being a clean freak (air and surface) works well with hand powered tools.

An easy choice are chisels for quick rehab and ubiquitous function. A router plane is perfect for dado cleanup, but know that rehab and tuning take time; usually with a guideline from the web. Cutting gauges are the ice cream scribes of apple pie joints. Surprisingly, a decent marking knife and various bevel gauges and layout dividers.

[Bill Wilson]

I'm a novice at buying old hand tools, but one thing I've learned is to do some homework and learn about what it is you are interested in.  Learn the difference between a clunker, a good user and a collectible.  Sometimes it's hard to tell them apart, at a quick glance.  You don't have to be an expert, but a little knowledge of the tools you are seeking will help prevent you from wasting a lot of time & money on junk.  A little rust isn't a problem.  Some times with planes, even some physical damage isn't a big problem (broken totes can be easily repaired/replaced, cracked soles not so much).  Missing hardware can be a problem because Stanley often used proprietary thread pitches & sizes that aren't readily available at the hardware store.

As has already been emphasized, buying a vintage tool is usually just the start.  There is a lot to be learned in how to properly restore, tune & sharpen it just to make it useable.  Then you have to learn how to use it.  Avoid the temptation of buying stuff just because it's cool or you like it.  It may not seem likely at first, being that you are focused on the user end of the rust hunting spectrum, but it can be a very slippery slope.  Impulse buys will start to become very attractive to you as you learn more & more about old tools and start to see stuff you never saw before or branch out from planes & saws into other areas of interest. 

As for block planes, I think they are part of the foundation of most hand tool sets.  I like the ones that have adjustable mouths.  Low angle block planes are nice.  Stanley made a boat load of different ones and doing the research can be a little daunting.  The 60 1/2 and the 9 1/2 are probably the most common and are classic versions of Stanley block planes. 

Most folks eventually end up here when looking for Stanley plane info;

http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html

Good luck and have fun rust hunting!

[Timberwolf]

I know I'm likely opening a can of worms by asking this, but here goes!

I'm attending an antiques fair near my house this weekend.  The ad claims over 100 vendors/tables.  The missus wants to go furniture/knick-knack shopping.  New house and all that, after all.

I'm going along and hoping that I might find some folks selling old hand planes and other hand tools.  Once I get my shop up and running, I want to start learning to use hand tools more--especially planes and hand saws for DT's.  I currently own a Stanley #5, two that are #4, I think (a Millers and a Stanley), a #7 jointer, a new (still oiled) Stanley shoulder plane, and a Krenov-style wooden smoother.

I don't own any block planes, routers, groovers, or others.  I know that I want to find a good block plane.  I think I've seen mentioned a Stanley 60 1/2 here before as a good block plane?  Should I hunt for that and/or a different style?  I want a routing plane...I think that's what it's called--a plane for cleaning up the bottom of a dado or groove?

What about hand saws?  I don't know a thing about them yet, so maybe I should wait.  I know I don't want a big rip or cross cut saw--my band and table saws handle that.  I'm thinking of shorter saw for cutting DT's and such.  Any suggestions there?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

.........................
I am kinda "wary" of Antique Fairs...many antique "vendors" have high expectations when it comes to pricing old tools and many have no "real" idea of the current value....I think it in your case it would be wise to pre-determine what you are interested in acquiring, then research the "completed listings" for prices on Ebay..That can get you into the ball park, but of course, condition is the key...and remember that on some planes, parts that came with it could be missing and or the plane could have been "modified" by previous owners...Always check the mouth for cracks and check for chips out of the front of the mouth..small chips out of the rear of the mouth usually do no harm to the operation, but "may" help to conceal other cracks or defects that the seller had no idea they were there...And blade length is very important..It's no bargain if you have to buy a new iron for a plane you just purchased unless it was cheaply priced...Fortunately, there are still lots of used irons out there so it is not a "deal killer" if priced right...

And don't forget, Woodnet has lots of reputable fellows that may be able to fill your plane requirements at a much better price than "antique dealers" who probably know very little about the tools they are selling.

Knowledge is power!!

[overland]

If you do get a low-angle Stanley 60 1/2 block plane--and that's a good plane to have--look for one with a wide bed that the iron rests on. Many are made so that the iron rests on a narrow bed along the side and in the front, by the mouth. But like the current Lie Nielsen block planes, some did come with with a wider bed. Those are better. I bought one about 10 years ago at an antique show for $25, and it was worth it.

[Admiral]

Jack gives some good advice.  I'd add that you should spend some time on Blood and Gore to read up on the planes you want to buy, so you'll be able to recognize if all the parts are there, and how to make sure you're not buying a "frankenplane" as antique dealers are not tool dealers, and will "marry" various parts to make the tool look complete.  

An example from just this weekend is an antique guy was selling the only plane on his table, which he was proudly calling a T11 #5 1/4, but it was not marked properly, tote was not Stanley and a knob screw that was brass and sunken into the knob - not correct.  No frog adjusting screw, it was a "Four Square" or secondary line Stanley once made in the 30s, so he slapped on a T11 lever cap, and he married up parts to make it look complete and old (Stanley made NO T11 5 1/4s, didn't start until the 20s), so I put it down.  Coming back down the row 5 minutes later I saw him sell it to an excited customer for $50.  He might as well have pulled out a gun and robbed the guy of his $50.  So, educate yourself and caveat emptor, as if it doesn't look quite right, it ain't, there will be plenty more if you keep looking!!!