sharpening PM-V11

[Timberwolf]

I think the oil stones are why you're not feeling a burr.  With the more exotic tool steels - PM-V11 in particular - it would take a long time to develop any kind of significant burr.  The carbides in the V11 present a real challenge to oil stones.  If you're happy with the results of your sharpening, then I'd just declare victory and move ahead.

........................
The PM-V11 is almost as hard as the stones... If not diamonds, I would recommend trying a Carborundum hone..It's Silicon Carbide and close to diamond in hardness..I use it on Tungsten Carbide...they wear quickly but they are cheap...For fine honing, ceramic may be a good option...

I would also try honing on Silicon carbide wet/dry sandpaper

[loosetoe]

I use ceramic Shapton Professional stones, 1000 and 12000.


When i first purchased the PM-V11 chisels, they would not sharpen to any satisfactory level.  PERIOD.  They would skate on the surface of my stones and would just not "bite".
I reground the edges hollow.  After doing so, they take an edge similar to any other chisels i own.  They do tend to take a couple more strokes to develop a similar burr to A2, but i mean one or two strokes not twenty seconds worth of strokes.

I have mixed feelings about this steel.  It does seem to hold an edge longer than my Lie Nielsen Chisels.  As a result, these are the chisels i typically reach for when chopping dovetails or other mallet work.  However, i do not like them for fine paring work as i just don't think the edge is that fine.  Your mileage may vary.

-Wayne

[Mike Brady]

This thread caught my attention for a couple of reasons, not the least of which is rectangle618 being a good friend and neighbor.  The other reason is some surprising information about the PMV11 metal.  My impression, not having used any of it, is that PMV11 enjoyed the ease of sharpening of O-1 and the endurance of A-2.  That appears to be an over-simplification, since achieving a burr, and the subsequent keen edge, requires the use of  the same sharpening media that A-2 demands.  To me, that is a shift away from being comparable with O-1.  Additionally some comments refer to the PMV11 be somewhat challenging to sharpen with any media, a caution for sure.  That leaves one attribute: PMV11 holds an keen edge well if you are are able to get to the level of sharpness that results only from developing a burr, perhaps followed by application of a strop.

Rectangle can add his own comments, but I imagine that he bought the PMV11 thinking it was modern steel that could be maintained with his traditional stones and free-hand technique.  Looking forward to your responses.

[Tony Z]

Rob Lee is a sly fox with his PMV11 material! Truly remarkable what he has achieved, and I'm saying this as the owner of a powder metal parts plant. We've spoken about his material and has hinted the manufacturer is in my area, but will not let any details about the how out of the bag.

I bet the maker is chomping at the bit to submit this material and part to our trade association for part of the year, but in my estimation, it is truly remarkable and I fully expect the evolution of the material to continue.

[barryvabeach]

Just to respond with my data point,  I have a few chisels and a plane iron.  I normally use a grinder to set the bevel angle, then stones and 3m microfinishing lapping film, also called microabrasive  http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.as...at=1,43072 starting at  15uf and find it sharpens pretty easily -  it might be a little harder to sharpen than O-1, but not enough for me to notice.

[Tony Z]

SMC maybe? I know they have a place near Galeton.

Don't think they have the type of equipment needed (I've been in the Galeton plant).

[AHill]

I use Sigma Select waterstones up to 13,000 grit.  I have one PM-V11 plane blade - a low angle BU blade I use on my Veritas Low Angle Jack.  My PM-V11 when used on the LAJ for shooting, is by far the sharpest blade I have in my arsenal.  It shaves pine end grain like butter and leaves behind a smooth and shiny surface.  I have A2, O1, and vintage Stanley blades that don't perform as well.  That's my experience.  Two things I've learned about the super tool steels that have lots of carbides is that 1) you need the proper sharpening media, and 2) if it's not sharp enough, you haven't sharpened long enough.  The extra time spent is well worth it in edge retention / durability.

[Derek Cohen]

I have experience with a number of steels: O1, A2, D2, M2, M4, 3V, and V11. My user bench chisels (7 in all) are PM-V11. I have this steel in at least 5 planes. There are other blades. 

It takes a total of 6-7 freehand strokes to achieve a razor edge when sharpening on a fresh bevel. That's about 30 seconds in all. 

Anyone can do this. Just use the same equipment as I do, and use the same technique.

The rule is that harder steels require a micro bevel. The only exception to this are Japanese chisels, and they have a thin hard cutting layer anyway. 

There are two ways to achieve this end: the first is to hollow grind the blade to the edge of the bevel. If you are going to do so, then you need to be confident in your grinding, and ensure that the blade remains cool. CBN wheels really help here, as does a Tormek. Still, it can be done on a white wheel (I did so for some years. I now use a 180 grit CBN wheel). The second method is to add a secondary micro bevel on a flat grind. This can be done both freehand or, my recommendation, in this instance use a honing guide. 

The basis of sharpening hard steels is grinding. The less steel to hone, the quicker it becomes. I wrote this article a few years ago:  http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTec...SetUp.html

This is a honed 1" blade. 30 seconds to sharpen ...



Mostly I use a worn 600 grit Eze-lap diamond stone (about 15 years old), Medium and Ultra Fine Spyderco ceramic stones, and a wooden strop with green compound. Often I can forgo the 600 grit.

Bottom line: PM-V11 is a sweet steel. It feels like O1 in use, and with the technique above it hones as fast.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[rectangle618]

Wow, lots of good stuff in these posts. My PM-V11 iron is for my Stanley #3 smoother. It's fairly new and still has the factory flat bevel. After my failure to get a burr during sharpening I will be hollow grinding the bevel next time it's necessary to refresh the edge. I freehand, so a hollow grind is helpful. Meanwhile the thing is quite sharp now so my medium India/black Arkansas/strop combination did the job. And I may try starting with a fine or medium grit diamond stone next time.
The iron works well in the #3, and it does seem to hold it's edge for longer than my O1 irons.
I appreciated MichaelMouse's comment: "Not to mention low malleability, so even thin portions don't bend to a burr, just break away. " Makes sense to me.

[Bibliophile 13]

I've used PM-V11 blades in several tools (planes, spokeshaves) for a year or two now. I used to think I couldn't get a burr on them, but now I know that I can. Like you, when I first started sharpening these blades, I thought that I couldn't raise a wire edge. I was getting the blades very sharp, and they cut really well. But I wasn't raising a burr. I was honing on a course stone until the edge was sharp, and then working through the finer abrasives. It worked. But the lack of a burr bugged me.

After some experimentation, I found that, given enough time on the coarse stone, you CAN get a burr--actually a substantial one. I do it regularly on freshly ground bevels now. But I don't think it's absolutely necessary to raise a big burr in order to get these blades sharp. A very, very small burr is all you need.

I do try to hone my irons before they get very dull, and I often find that just touching up the PM-V11 on the fine stone and stropping is all you need if you re-hone regularly.

FWIW, I use a pretty worn continuous-surface diamond stone as my course medium. Then I go to a soft Arkansas stone, and finally strop on leather with green honing compound.