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Wondering if any of you have faced this before, and if there is a solution.
I'm restoring a #8c. There is very weird/bad pitting on both sides of the plane. However the bottom, with corrugations, is rust and corrosion free. The japanning is about 95% and looks fine with no, or very little rust.
The lever cap is heavily pitted. The blade/chipbreaker are fine.
This is a wartime era plane.
This were going well until this however.. when I tried to install the frog, the screws stripped out from the base.. I removed the washer from the bolt, to give more depth, and that worked.. but the washer was missing... Same thing happened on front knob, the screw stripped out the threads from the base of the plane...
I guess there was bad corrosion down in those threads, but I've never seen that before.. not even sure how that could happen... the bolts were not corroded when I removed them to clean them up...
I suspect something fishy, but is there a fix to this to salvage the plane body, or is it scrap.
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Maybe a drop or two of JB Weld into the holes?
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Odd.
The side pitting isn't to worry about, probably; no effect on use.
If you're equipped to tap holes, you can probably retap the stripped holes to the next larger screw. It will mean figuring out how to replace the frog and knob screws with something that works, and you'll wind up with a hole in the sole at each location (but, if you slightly countersink it and keep the screw short enough not to stick out, it won't affect use).
Aftermarket, or used, cutting irons and chipbreakers are available.
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I am not worried about the corrosion on the side, I cleaned it up as best I can. I was just surprised to see that heavy pitting on both sides of the plane and really nowhere else. I can't figure out how the plane was stored and a way that only corroded the sides not the top or bottom.
However the real problem I have is that those holes are stripped out. I have never had that before and don't know what to do.
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(10-08-2017, 01:19 PM)Strokes77 Wrote: I am not worried about the corrosion on the side, I cleaned it up as best I can. I was just surprised to see that heavy pitting on both sides of the plane and really nowhere else. I can't figure out how the plane was stored and a way that only corroded the sides not the top or bottom.
However the real problem I have is that those holes are stripped out. I have never had that before and don't know what to do.
If the holes are truly stripped out, which it appears they are, the only solution is to re-tap with a larger thread size, which may, or may not, work for you as picking the size is tricky, it must be large enough to get a good re-tapping, but small enough to be accommodated by the holes in the sole and the frog. I don't envy the choice. Further, to accommodate the diameter of the larger screws, you may have to file larger slide holes in the frog, which can't be too wide as that may compromise the integrity of the frog. You have some difficult choices, unless you go with the JBWeld suggestion and just see what happens. Or you can use JBWeld and fix the frog in a somewhat neutral position. In the past when I was faced with a similar issue, I just trashed the sole and moved on.......... it might be a parts plane.
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(10-08-2017, 01:19 PM)Strokes77 Wrote: I am not worried about the corrosion on the side, I cleaned it up as best I can. I was just surprised to see that heavy pitting on both sides of the plane and really nowhere else. I can't figure out how the plane was stored and a way that only corroded the sides not the top or bottom.
However the real problem I have is that those holes are stripped out. I have never had that before and don't know what to do.
You could insert helicoils. A local automotive store should have them. Unfortunately Stanley used 12-20 threads which is odd and I don't know if anyone makes them. You can get 12-24 thread. Screws would be easy to find but the knob screw would have to be made. You would need to thread 12-24 on one end and 12-20 on the other. Here is a source for both dies.
http://www.victornet.com/searchresults.html?q=dies#
BAT
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(10-08-2017, 11:48 AM)Bill_Houghton Wrote: Odd.
The side pitting isn't to worry about, probably; no effect on use.
If you're equipped to tap holes, you can probably retap the stripped holes to the next larger screw. It will mean figuring out how to replace the frog and knob screws with something that works, and you'll wind up with a hole in the sole at each location (but, if you slightly countersink it and keep the screw short enough not to stick out, it won't affect use).
Aftermarket, or used, cutting irons and chipbreakers are available.
You should not have to wind up with a through hole. Taps come in starting, second, and bottom based on the taper at the tip. With any luck, you can start the threading with a 2nd tap (what you often see in the store as a stand-alone tap) and then switch to a bottom tap. You might have to start with the bottom tap and do it all with one. That makes any of the angled holes a bit more challenging. You will need to be very careful about feeling when the tap touches the bottom of the hole. Tap fluid is also helpful. If you have never used a tap before and decide to go this way, please come back and ask for pointers. There are a number of minor points about using them that are trivial and obvious once you know them, but not at all obvious the first time you try to use one.
There are other tricks that a machinist could do for the frog screws (like use an end mill to make them a lot larger and make a plug with external threads for the new hole and internal threads for the regular frog screws. That is the insert version of a helicoil. Unless there is sentimental value, the plane body is probably not worth the cost of the machinist.
Based on your description, I suspect that the plane might have spent some time in a marine environment sitting upright on some kind of material that protected the sole. The thread problem sounds like electrolytic corrosion where the plane body was anodic to the screws. If so, the screws are likely in especially good condition after the crud is removed.
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Thank you all for the help. There is something very different about this plane body, so I am just trying to solve the mystery. The sides where the corrosion was they almost seem to crumble when I try to lap them. It was coming off in big chunks. But it wasn't rusty when I got it. Is it possible someone tried to use electrolysis on it and it destroyed the structure/integrity of the cast iron or something?
I I am not a machinist, and don't think I am experienced enough to try these things you are talking about, and if I just J-B Weld the screws in I wouldn't feel comfortable selling it as a restoration because the new person wouldn't be able to remove the knob or the Frog.
Reckon this one will get parted out, eventually I will find a number eight body and put it back together.
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Restoring planes is a crapshoot and it looks like you crapped out. One guess is that this plane was in a fire and the metal was damaged by heat. Another is that this plane was stored badly and corroded. It may even have been in a flood. I have never seen threads crumble on plane bodies--that is odd. Perhaps the previous owner stripped them out trying to remove the original parts and then "repaired" them with JB Weld or something. It does look like parts at this point. I guess the good thing is that the most frequent damaged part on a #8 is the frog. If yours is good, then that is a good place to start.
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(10-08-2017, 05:22 PM)Strokes77 Wrote: Thank you all for the help. There is something very different about this plane body, so I am just trying to solve the mystery. The sides where the corrosion was they almost seem to crumble when I try to lap them. It was coming off in big chunks. But it wasn't rusty when I got it. Is it possible someone tried to use electrolysis on it and it destroyed the structure/integrity of the cast iron or something?
I I am not a machinist, and don't think I am experienced enough to try these things you are talking about, and if I just J-B Weld the screws in I wouldn't feel comfortable selling it as a restoration because the new person wouldn't be able to remove the knob or the Frog.
Reckon this one will get parted out, eventually I will find a number eight body and put it back together.
One thing I would check is use another plane's rods and connecting screws to see if they fit. Some unscrupulous seller may have lost the original rods and then decided to just make due with a replacement that doesn't actually fit but would survive a brief inspection.
Pedro
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