Maple tables disaster...blotchy finish.

[Duane N]

One of my first furniture builds was a set of Maple tables for my addition.  Coffee table, 2 end tables and 2 side tables.  This was a test for myself to see if I wanted to invest in woodworking as a hobby.  I liked how they turned out but when it came time to finishing them...not happy at all with the results despite the test pieces looking OK.

This was a year ago....I decided to get a fresh start and I'm in the process of cleaning up the mess. 

What the table tops looked like and the smaller tops are for the side tables after cutting the top apart to run everything through my surface planer then re-gluing.

   

The legs are going to be the most difficult because they are tapered.  I need to make a new jig so I can re-saw the tapers then joint the 2 flat sides of the legs.

   

Bonus was the stock I bought for the legs ended up being figured Maple.  I wished I had known what it was because I would have used the stock for something other than table legs.

   

I used Transtint dye and it was my first attempt at using dye.  Thankfully it didn't soak into the grain of the wood too deep so removing it isn't as hard as I thought it was going to be.

[Danny in Houston]

Maple only needs oil (I prefer linseed) and a protective clear top coat, no need for dyes.

[jteneyck]

Next time strip the finish and dye off with chemical stripper; no need to tear something apart and rework it just because of a poor finish.  There are lots of ways to finish maple.  Using dye to highlight the figure in curly, birdseye, etc. is a classic approach, but it comes with the same risk that all maple, pine, cherry and similar woods have of turning blotchy.  On plain maple blotching is a real eyesore, to me anyway.  There are lots of approaches to overcoming that problem.  Most involve trying to pre treat the wood with some kind of conditioner.  The ones I've tried were never satisfactory.  I found spraying to be the most fool proof method of applying dye to blotch prone wood, so that's what I now do.  If you don't have spray equipment then you are left with the other options.  I've read good things about Charles Neil's Blotch Controller but have never tried it.  

John

[FloridaRetiree]

I don't understand?

Maple has to be one of the easiest woods to finish -- even the curly, birds eye, etc.

Usually the less you do the better.

A light dye could lead to some interesting enhancements, but not usually.

An ole time oil top finish would be polymerized tung -- another name for marine spar varnish. Linseed soon darkens, and is completely obsolete in my opinion.

.
.
.
.
.
.

Abandoned those many years ago in favor of one of the cross linked acrylics.

Many many great options to enjoy and experiment with until you find what you want.

[Duane N]

Maple only needs oil (I prefer linseed) and a protective clear top coat, no need for dyes.

On the underside of one of the side table tops I taped off an area and applied 2 coats of Danish Oil.  Maple being a light colored wood and difficult to see the grain unfinished I want to enhance the grain and darken it up a bit but not too much.  The Danish Oil is close to what I'm after (maybe a bit more darker) so I'm going to experiment more.  I like seeing the grain in furniture without it looking stained (if that makes sense).  My Cedar TV stand I just finished is what I like seeing in my furniture and I used 7 coats of Shellac (1 pound cut).

Next time strip the finish and dye off with chemical stripper; no need to tear something apart and rework it just because of a poor finish.  There are lots of ways to finish maple.  Using dye to highlight the figure in curly, birdseye, etc. is a classic approach, but it comes with the same risk that all maple, pine, cherry and similar woods have of turning blotchy.  On plain maple blotching is a real eyesore, to me anyway.  There are lots of approaches to overcoming that problem.  Most involve trying to pre treat the wood with some kind of conditioner.  The ones I've tried were never satisfactory.  I found spraying to be the most fool proof method of applying dye to blotch prone wood, so that's what I now do.  If you don't have spray equipment then you are left with the other options.  I've read good things about Charles Neil's Blotch Controller but have never tried it.  

John

Unfortunately no sprayer so I'm going to have to experiment.  I watch a guy on Youtube that treats all his Cherry furniture he builds with Armorseal....about 3 coats.  I may pick up a small can and see what the Maple looks like. 

I don't understand?

Maple has to be one of the easiest woods to finish -- even the curly, birds eye, etc.

Usually the less you do the better.  

A light dye could lead to some interesting enhancements, but not usually.

An ole time oil top finish would be polymerized tung -- another name for marine spar varnish.  Linseed soon darkens, and is completely obsolete in my opinion.

.
.
.
.
.
.

Abandoned those many years ago in favor of one of the cross linked acrylics.  

Many many great options to enjoy and experiment with until you find what you want.

"An ole time oil top finish would be polymerized tung -- another name for marine spar varnish." 

Thank you for this suggestion and I will try it on some test pieces.  Experimenting is a good way for me to learn what not to do next time and I'm enjoying the learning experience.

[jteneyck]

It looks like I misinterpreted what you want to do.  In your first post you said you used Transtint dye, so I thought that's what you wanted to do with the new finish in order to get a darker color.  But your later post suggests shellac, varnish, etc. is close to the color you are after. 

FWIW, Arm-R-Seal imparts very little color to maple.  It's probably the lightest color varnish you could use.  It's beautiful, but nearly water white. Here it is on curly maple:



You can get a lot of color variations using shellac, from garnet, to amber, etc.  Or you can add Transtint dye to shellac and make any color toner you want.  However, applying shellac or shellac toners uniformly is a bi__h by hand unless the piece is really small.  If you go that route you should practice padding on scrap before trying it on your table top or you are headed for another disappointing result.

The easiest way to get uniform color is to use colored Danish oil if one of the colors they offer meets your needs, or a blend of them.  Then topcoat with whatever varnish you like.  You could get much the same results using oil soluble dye in the oil of choice.  Lockwood's makes a line of oil soluble dyes.  

John

[rwe2156]

Next time strip the finish and dye off with chemical stripper; no need to tear something apart and rework it just because of a poor finish.  There are lots of ways to finish maple.  Using dye to highlight the figure in curly, birdseye, etc. is a classic approach, but it comes with the same risk that all maple, pine, cherry and similar woods have of turning blotchy.  On plain maple blotching is a real eyesore, to me anyway.  There are lots of approaches to overcoming that problem.  Most involve trying to pre treat the wood with some kind of conditioner.  The ones I've tried were never satisfactory.  I found spraying to be the most fool proof method of applying dye to blotch prone wood, so that's what I now do.  If you don't have spray equipment then you are left with the other options.  I've read good things about Charles Neil's Blotch Controller but have never tried it.  

John

This ^ pretty much says it all

[Duane N]

It looks like I misinterpreted what you want to do.  In your first post you said you used Transtint dye, so I thought that's what you wanted to do with the new finish in order to get a darker color.  But your later post suggests shellac, varnish, etc. is close to the color you are after. 

FWIW, Arm-R-Seal imparts very little color to maple.  It's probably the lightest color varnish you could use.  It's beautiful, but nearly water white.  Here it is on curly maple:



You can get a lot of color variations using shellac, from garnet, to amber, etc.  Or you can add Transtint dye to shellac and make any color toner you want.  However, applying shellac or shellac toners uniformly is a bi__h by hand unless the piece is really small.  If you go that route you should practice padding on scrap before trying it on your table top or you are headed for another disappointing result.  

The easiest way to get uniform color is to use colored Danish oil if one of the colors they offer meets your needs, or a blend of them.  Then topcoat with whatever varnish you like.  You could get much the same results using oil soluble dye in the oil of choice.  Lockwood's makes a line of oil soluble dyes.  

John

I acquired a maple workbench top that being thrown away from a jobsite that is the color I want my maple tables to look like.  It's actually close to the color of your curly maple you posted a picture of.

   

The side table top I put Danish Oil on is close to the color of the maple workbench but a wee bit lighter in color.  Here is the maple table top compared to the workbench top.  I may experiment with Danish Oil that is already tinted and see if I can darken it up a bit...but not too much.

   

[Steve N]

Duane, did you stain it? Maple is notorious to blotch with stain, actually a lot of the "whitewoods" or paler woods can blotch with stain. Some pre-treat with a filler, or shellac.

Plenty of info online about blotch control of Maple, whitewoods

I agree with others, Shellac, and a top coat. Oil and a top coat, even dye and a top coat, but stain pigment just lays on top, hardly any penetration. A lesson learned. Any time you put time into work, check your intended finish on some scrap first, if that isn't right, no biggie.

I agree with John. Use a stripper on the entire piece. I've been finding the "citrus strippers" are very good, and extremely cost effective. HF has some low priced "tooth brush" like brushes, in steel, brass, and nylon, for getting into details. Cheap enough you just pitch them after use. An assortment of sponges, rough if you can find them, and a paint scraper for straight flat parts, and a big honking plastic tub to do the work in, you can keep re-dipping the stripper that falls of. Rubber gloves like your Mom used in the Kitchen, and jump on in. Ohhhh eyewear/googles is a HUGE plus, and if you are a mouth breather a dust mask, tastes terrible, but if you breathe it in, you could be toast, swallowing isn't advisable either.

[jteneyck]

I acquired a maple workbench top that being thrown away from a jobsite that is the color I want my maple tables to look like.  It's actually close to the color of your curly maple you posted a picture of.



The side table top I put Danish Oil on is close to the color of the maple workbench but a wee bit lighter in color.  Here is the maple table top compared to the workbench top.  I may experiment with Danish Oil that is already tinted and see if I can darken it up a bit...but not too much.

OK, you've confirmed I misinterpreted your intent when you said you wanted to make it darker.  The color change you are looking for is really nothing more than happens when you put most any OB varnish on maple.  Arm-R-Seal is about the lightest, P&L 38 a little more amber, and Waterlox darker still.  In the end, getting an exact match is usually a fool's errand, I should know.  It takes many, many, many, get the idea, many test specimens to develop a finish recipe for a perfect match, if there even is such a thing.  And you could have two pieces made at the same time, with the same wood, and finished identically.  Side by side they will look like twins.  Separate them by 10 feet and they likely won't.  Close is good enough most of the time.  

John