Jointer Techniques

[TadMcD]

Couple common [newbie] problems I'm having:

While jointing, rather than flattening, I'm getting a sort of wedge shape on my pieces. I assume I'm doing something stupid. The knives are all level and the tables are, as well. I keep thinking it's because of where I'm applying pressure on the outfeed. Dunno. Just seems to be a consistent, but not every time, screw-up. Thoughts?

Also, my jointer is only 6" so I've tried using the "run wider boards through until you get a ridge on the non-jointed surface, then double-side tape the piece to a flat board and run it through your planer then flip it over and run it through the planer again" technique. Epic fail. Ideas?

TIA

[JGrout]

Couple common [newbie] problems I'm having:

While jointing, rather than flattening, I'm getting a sort of wedge shape on my pieces. I assume I'm doing something stupid. The knives are all level and the tables are, as well. I keep thinking it's because of where I'm applying pressure on the outfeed. Dunno. Just seems to be a consistent, but not every time, screw-up. Thoughts?

Also, my jointer is only 6" so I've tried using the "run wider boards through until you get a ridge on the non-jointed surface, then double-side tape the piece to a flat board and run it through your planer then flip it over and run it through the planer again" technique. Epic fail. Ideas?

TIA

1> assuming you straighten the first edge then  rip the stock parallel then back to the jointer to clean up the saw tracks your edges should be parallel. 

if not the above technique will fix your issues unless the outfeed table is _way_ out of coplaner (highly doubtful)

2>flattening wide stock is simpler this way as you can actually see where you need to remove stock 

wide stock on a narrow jointer link

HTH

Joe

[rayknight]

The tapering a board issue is often caused by trying to joint the convex (bowed up/out) edge/surface and allowing the board to be guided by the infeed/outfeed table.  that is why most of us were taught to start with the concave (bowed in) edge/surface and you don't get the wedge.  with experience you can start with either side.  If you want to start with the convex side, you need to hold the leading edge up a bit, establish a flat on the middle convex part, when the flat is big enough, let the infeed/outfeed table guide taking in on down to flat, but your default should be to start on the concave side, with initial cuts at each end.
hope this makes sense and is helpful.
Ray

[TadMcD]

thank you.

yes, i create a clean edge on the jointer first and then run the boards along the fence when jointing the wider surface. i also keep the concave side down. (not sure that's clear. if you look at the board end, it would have a frown rather than a smile.)

i generally take off the other edge on the TS before running through the planer, not before jointing the wide part of the boards. i'm confused that this might influence/create a wedge shape if done after jointing the boards. i may have missed the point here, happens a lot to me...

hope this makes sense.

[JGrout]

Well to make a bowed board flat you are going to create in essence a wedged or tapered end. that is inevitable, and expected with bowed stock. 

The order of processing here goes like this 

1 rough cut all stock into manageable lengths usually ~1" or so longer than the finished lengths 

2 flatten stock if you use the frown the ends will take the majority of the cutting to flatten, you may even have to flip stock end for end to keep from getting too thin on one end. I generally work the ends until I am near rhe center of the board then make one single pass to flatten it from end to end. 

3 Go to the planer and make the two faces parallel and even thickness. 

4 go back to the jointer, cut the edge that is high in the center ( frown down) until the edge is straight.

5 go to the TS and rip the opposing edge straight and parallel to the other edge. 

6 go back to the jointer and clean up the cut edge. 

I left out a few steps here ( like when to glue stock together that is wider)  but the gist of the process is as above. 

Joe

[MichaelMouse]

thank you.

yes, i create a clean edge on the jointer first and then run the boards along the fence when jointing the wider surface. i also keep the concave side down. (not sure that's clear. if you look at the board end, it would have a frown rather than a smile.)

i generally take off the other edge on the TS before running through the planer, not before jointing the wide part of the boards. i'm confused that this might influence/create a wedge shape if done after jointing the boards. i may have missed the point here, happens a lot to me...

hope this makes sense.

Sight the board and use a hand plane to remove high spots.  Doesn't have to be precise, but it will help you maintain the board flat on the tables when face jointing, which precedes jointing the edge.  You can do the tippy test and find high spots and check progress against any flat surface. Once the forward portion of the board clears the knives use your heavy hold just ahead of the knives, and your steady hold/push lightly as you progress. 

Cutting to rough length first helps a lot getting a face and leaving suitable thickness on some otherwise impossible stock.

[Steve N]

Just a clarification question. Are you "jointing" both faces of a board?

My first step is to ALWAYS cut the stock to just over final length. Attempting to joint or plane very long boards with any twist, cup, or other irregularities will often make for very thin boards. The simple act of cutting to approximate length goes a long way to removing irregularities. Now if you have 20' long perfectly flat stock this doesn't apply, and it also doesn't occur very often either.

One face, and one edge only on the jointer. The flat smooth edge of the jointed piece goes against your rip fence to cut the width of the board to just oversized, to be finalized at a later time, and the other face is flattened in a thickness planer. Jointers joint, only planers, and planes flatten worth a hoot. Sometimes on very flat stock a wide belt sander can, but you need really sweet stock for that to happen.

Trying to get the other face off the jointer is the quickest path to making wedges I know of. Just checking this, as it is very important.

[TadMcD]

Thanks, Steve et al.

No, I'm not attempting to joint both sides/edges; I do an edge, I do a face. Then I move to the TS to trim the other edge and the planer to address the other face.

One of the issues raised here is specifically germane: Cut pieces to rough dimensions before prepping.

Admittedly, I'm violating that basic guidance since I've got scads of old/reclaimed lumber from various places and I'm trying to "see" what it looks like to determine if it's usable for my needs. Ergo, I'm working with pieces that are larger/longer than I normally would use in an actual build.

I've resawn some of the thicker stuff to see the innards, but I've often been surprised (see: disappointed) to find a lot of termite remnants in a bunch of 3/4 stock (white oak). I made a mission-style end table out of the white oak and some mahogany...I probably jointed/planed four times the actual stock needed for the project just to find usable material.

I've recently purchased from Brian helix cutters for both my jointer and planer. I'm hoping the new tools will render moot many of my current difficulties.

Thank you again, to all, for your assistance.

[JGrout]

Thanks, Steve et al.

No, I'm not attempting to joint both sides/edges; I do an edge, I do a face. Then I move to the TS to trim the other edge and the planer to address the other face.

One of the issues raised here is specifically germane: Cut pieces to rough dimensions before prepping.

Admittedly, I'm violating that basic guidance since I've got scads of old/reclaimed lumber from various places and I'm trying to "see" what it looks like to determine if it's usable for my needs. Ergo, I'm working with pieces that are larger/longer than I normally would use in an actual build.

I've resawn some of the thicker stuff to see the innards, but I've often been surprised (see: disappointed) to find a lot of termite remnants in a bunch of 3/4 stock (white oak). I made a mission-style end table out of the white oak and some mahogany...I probably jointed/planed four times the actual stock needed for the project just to find usable material.

I've recently purchased from Brian helix cutters for both my jointer and planer. I'm hoping the new tools will render moot many of my current difficulties.

Thank you again, to all, for your assistance.

If you want to "see" what the stock looks like under the exterior the simplest way is to take a power plane and skim the stock enough to reveal the innards 

follow that with actual processing length flatten edge etc. 

and flip your edge / face process you need to have a reference surface larger than the edge gives you to work with. you will find the processes not only easier, but more accurate 

Joe

[TadMcD]

Thanks, Joe.

I don't have a power planer, but I've tried sanders and hand planes. Don't mind the cost of sand paper, but the lumber is often covered in dirt and "stuff" after sitting 50-100 years in barns and old buildings. I clean the pieces off as best I can (and check for nails), but I'm reticent to used my hand planes. If the pieces are thick (say, 2" or more), I just resaw them as I know I won't need any stock that thick for my projects. That lets me see the guts.

Meh...it's a process...

Thank you, again.