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(11-20-2017, 10:04 AM)Tony Z Wrote: Finally, it has gotten old, his constant hawking of tools, with his "caveat" that he buys those tools he recommends (plus he is part owner of the company that makes some).
Chris Schwarz operates or at least appears to operate on the basis of networking. He is surrounded by a close knit or circle of friends -- some famous, some less -- who support and publicize his work or business through their TV or magazine or blogs. It is therefore natural that from time to time he will "recommend" tools that may or may not be from his circle of friends. Better have more friends than enemies when you operate a small business by word of mouth. As the saying goes, you scratch my back and I will scratch yours.
He has enough followers to follow him to buy what he recommends. I have little issue with that because we are all adults and we can spend money as we wish. The only time I cringe is when he supports things that are pretty silly like hanging something on your bench apron to store your square, screwdrivers, etc. Or when he tries to justify something on very weak grounds, such as why selling his high-priced dividers with tips unsharpened. He is good with words but he must realize words alone may fool some people but not everyone, and certainly not all the time.
Simon
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(11-22-2017, 11:22 AM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: Or when he tries to justify something on very weak grounds, such as why selling his high-priced dividers with tips unsharpened. He is good with words but he must realize words alone may fool some people but not everyone, and certainly not all the time.
Simon
I've not had the opportunity to fondle the dividers, I'm assuming they are very, very nice as I know Raney from when he lived and worked in NJ, and he has incredible skills in metalworking, but the website is not quite clear if the price is per divider or per set (3) of dividers, which is how they are pictured. If three, then they are in the same general price point as Starrett, but I agree that they should be sold sharpened.
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The dividers are priced per tool. There is only one size, and thus not in sets.
They are pricing their products as if the world owes them a living; completely ignoring any competition, which they have with every tool that they make. So yes, Starrett makes dividers with micro adjusters for less money. Take a look at the hammer they are introducing; a so-called lump hammer. $85.00 There is absolutely no reason for that tool to be in my shop, at any price. Sorry.
Chris, Raney, and John are really extremely nice, hard working guys with unique qualifications. They have many, diverse interests that are pulling them this way, then that way, but seldom all the same way. That has to be tough on family life, not to mention their individual dreams and ambitions.
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(11-22-2017, 12:45 PM)Admiral Wrote: I've not had the opportunity to fondle the dividers, I'm assuming they are very, very nice as I know Raney from when he lived and worked in NJ, and he has incredible skills in metalworking, but the website is not quite clear if the price is per divider or per set (3) of dividers, which is how they are pictured. If three, then they are in the same general price point as Starrett, but I agree that they should be sold sharpened.
The pic is of 3 of the same divider. There's only one size, and the price is for one each divider. I like nice tools, but $187 is way out of my comfort zone for a pair of dividers.
Still Learning,
Allan Hill
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(11-22-2017, 03:49 PM)AHill Wrote: The pic is of 3 of the same divider. There's only one size, and the price is for one each divider. I like nice tools, but $187 is way out of my comfort zone for a pair of dividers.
Saw an article in latest PWW... got curious... Sold out....
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Wonder how much they would sell these for
Inside, Outside, compass, and a 6" and an 8" divider..
And the dividers...
opened up...
These were about $5 - $8 each....
Show me a picture, I'll build a project from that
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(11-22-2017, 03:49 PM)AHill Wrote: The pic is of 3 of the same divider. There's only one size, and the price is for one each divider. I like nice tools, but $187 is way out of my comfort zone for a pair of dividers.
I was too young for bamboo rods when glass took over. So, recently I bought a pristine (antique?) bamboo fly rod made in my birth year, in my birth state, for a chunk of change. I flipped a fuzzy a couple times. Too afraid to damage it. And I'm not a collector. Almost the equal of those dividers.
A pair of dividers at that price would be my "Fool's Display" in my new bachelor's pad after the divorce. And I thought $8 was way too much for a dull, rusty saw.
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That sage of sages, Red Green, stated so succinctly decades ago, "it's a poor workman that blames his tools"........
I will repeat what I posted much earlier in this thread, Swartz as done a major favor to many aspiring, novice and less-experienced, with many of the "Lost Art" re-publications. I don't need any of those books, but have still purchased many of them. They are of top quality, and put into an easily accessible place, answers to questions that pop into my head at usually the least opportune time. I would heartily recommend "The Anarchist Toolbox", the Wearing book or the Hayward books.
BUT, those dividers? The "lump hammer"? Having spent the past 30 years in manufacturing (the owner), I can empathize with novice manufacturers "thinking" their R & D should be reimbursed in their product price, and in some cases, such as pharmaceuticals, that is true. But not for commonly available goods. Plus, from seeing the methods Crucible uses, I would not pay for their manufacturing inefficiences (plus questional raw materials, such as the semi-hard material used in the hammer).
Beyond those comments things become personal such as my poor opinion of his sophomorific, semi-profane language as well as letting political leanings enter discussions of the hobby. Swartz will never be a Tag Frid, a David Charlesworth a Frank Klaus and so forth. He has developed his persona around a legion of admirers, and to those, he is providing services such as training and inspiration. So for all that, he is very positive for our hobby. For those in the profession? I really doubt it.
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(11-22-2017, 06:28 PM)salmo Wrote: Saw an article in latest PWW...
See? What I meant by scratching backs.
The magazine industry and tool makers (all of them, except those small ones who don't have the money to place ads) are getting so close with each other in the last decade or so that you can't trust any magazine reviews these days. Most reviews done by known or little known or unknown people are of little substance because the tools never passed serious prolonged use and in many cases they repeat what the makers claim.
Simon
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(11-23-2017, 11:01 AM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: See? What I meant by scratching backs.
The magazine industry and tool makers (all of them, except those small ones who don't have the money to place ads) are getting so close with each other in the last decade or so that you can't trust any magazine reviews these days. Most reviews done by known or little known or unknown people are of little substance because the tools never passed serious prolonged use and in many cases they repeat what the makers claim.
Simon
I have many, many vintage tools, including many vintage dividers (usually dirt cheap, even at antique malls). I've been using dividers regularly for many years, but for the dividers I have, the ones I use most are a 12" pair, bought at, of all places, Harbor Freight. Lock up nicely, and I ain't afraid to drop 'em, and cost all of $5.00 or so. I'm sure HF has mash hammer also, and probably a set of french curves. To the hobby noobs here, it ain't the tools, but knowing how to use them.
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