Ideal jointer size?

[Steve N]

You can never have a jointer, or planer, that's too wide. 

I agree with this 100%

Buy as wide as you can put in your shop, and your wallet will allow, and you won't end up buying several jointers until you finally get it right. In the end that makes the big jointer cheaper, DAMHIKT


That said, I had worked up to a 16" Jointer, and a 24" planer at one time when I was doing bigger work on a regular basis. My needs have changed, and now I am good with an 8" Jointer, and a 15" planer. So before you buy big you have to assess your needs, if all you ever make are small boxes,6" jointer, and 13" planer are fine. Large furniture, and you will be frustrated. Point is you can do small work on a big tool, but you have to do modifications to do big work on a smaller tool.

Not saying you can't work it, just not one pass without modification of some sort. Jointer you can remove the fence, and send it in half width at a time. Planer you can rip the stock, surface it, then glue it back up.

[WilliamHodge]

How old are you talking about?  I've seen jointers made in the 40's that leave a beautiful finish.  With good bearings and sharp knives it's hard to beat those old iron monsters with their massive, large diameter cutter heads for smoothness.  

John

I guess I wasn't clear. I meant that it's OK to get an old jointer, because the planer cleans the finish up.
By old, I meant two knife square head. They weren't supposed to leave a finished surface, they were rough milling jointers. A newer round head jointer does cut smoother.

Getting some big old machine is possible, with support from people online.There's a lot of big old machines out there that could be in use. It takes some work to learn how to adjust and guard them, collect dust, and set knives.

[jteneyck]

I did a quick look on craigslist and ebay, and it seems like the older jointers (especially ones like Oliver made) are even MORE expensive than brand new ones would sell for after the same number of years. Did machines used to be more expensive or something? I'm sure tools being made in more efficient facilities (with cheaper labor in some cases) helps bring the price down quite a bit, but I'm interested as to why the older models seem so much more expensive.

Also, I know Grizzly makes 10" combo machine, but the length of the tables is only 40" total, which is actually somewhat SHORTER than the ones on my 6" G0452. Also, call me OCD, but the planer width is listed a quarter inch shorter than that 10" in the title. I like to have like a quarter to a half inch of extra wiggle room with jointing and planing. Even without that little annoyance, doesn't 40" seem INSANELY short, especially for a jointer with a 10" cutterhead? It's too bad, cause it's less than $1500 before shipping and tax.

You probably aren't comparing apples and apples.  A new Oliver costs a lot more than an old one.  I've seen lots of old 12 - 16" Olivers and similar CI monsters for less than $2000, sometimes far less.  A new 12" Oliver is probably at least $8K.  Yes, you can buy a 12" Grizzly with a spiral head for $3000 or so, and it will run just fine, but it's not in the same league as those old machines.  Only you can decide what your needs are and what machine will best meet them.  I'm only saying there are plenty of old, high quality machines around for a very good price if you are patient.  Here's one I found in 2 minutes less than 50 miles from my house:  Really nice 16" Delta  

And here's a good looking Robland combination machine with 12" J/P.

Or a European 12" jointer.  

The tables on my Inca were less than 40" total.  They made it harder to joint long boards, but I still did it even on stuff 8' long.  I certainly enjoy the 60+" tables on my MiniMax and I'm sure I would like 100" long tables (like that Delta) even more, but width is far more important then length to me.  I'd much rather have the 14" J/P I have now than an 8" with 8 ft tables. 

John

[KingwoodFan1989]

Yes, you can buy a 12" Grizzly with a spiral head for $3000 or so, and it will run just fine, but it's not in the same league as those old machines.

Here's one I found in 2 minutes less than 50 miles from my house:  Really nice 16" Delta  

And here's a good looking Robland combination machine with 12" J/P.

Or a European 12" jointer.  

So how does Grizzly compare with the NEWER Oliver Machines? I'd bet it's not quite up to par, but Grizzly's stuff, for the most part, seems at least on the verge of high end or at least upper mid tier equipment. I've only used a 16" Oliver Jointer a small number of times, and that was years ago. Quite a beast of a machine and quite intimidating to use the first few times around. With the standard style guard, you can see the gigantic cutterhead spinning as the trailing end of a board goes over before the guard closes. Took some getting used to!

And those are nice looking machines! What state do you live in? My only fears with these old machines are these: Having to potentially get the tables ground back to flat (and the required price/work) as well as a difficulty in transporting them or moving them around the shop. Are there any extra tough mobile bases that can be retrofitted onto an older jointer? I don't think I'd go above a 12" jointer, at least not as far as I can tell at this point.

Also, this is gonna sound like a real amateur question, but is there a special type of wiring required for plugging in a 3-phase machine? What's the main difference between that and a single phase anyway?

[jteneyck]

So how does Grizzly compare with the NEWER Oliver Machines? I'd bet it's not quite up to par, but Grizzly's stuff, for the most part, seems at least on the verge of high end or at least upper mid tier equipment. I've only used a 16" Oliver Jointer a small number of times, and that was years ago. Quite a beast of a machine and quite intimidating to use the first few times around. With the standard style guard, you can see the gigantic cutterhead spinning as the trailing end of a board goes over before the guard closes. Took some getting used to!

And those are nice looking machines! What state do you live in? My only fears with these old machines are these: Having to potentially get the tables ground back to flat (and the required price/work) as well as a difficulty in transporting them or moving them around the shop. Are there any extra tough mobile bases that can be retrofitted onto an older jointer? I don't think I'd go above a 12" jointer, at least not as far as I can tell at this point.

I don't think anyone would ever claim a Grizzly is in the same class as an Oliver.  That said, the more expensive Grizzly machines are well made and will last a life time.  From that perspective what more does one need? 

I live in NY.  I wouldn't buy a machine where I had to have the table reground.  That's a sign of a lot of use and means other things are likely worn out.  There are plenty of good used machines out there so don't waste time on worn out ones.  Moving and transporting these heavy beasts is a challenge, but can still be managed by 2 or three people and a winch or come-along.  Jointers generally are not meant to be moved around on mobile bases, especially the old cast iron ones.  You get them in position, level them, and leave them alone so that they stay level and the tables stay aligned.  The more modern steel frame jointers can be moved around on a mobile base, but can still twist out of alignment if the floor isn't reasonably flat.  Three wheeled bases are better than 4 with regard to twist. 

John

[®smpr_fi_mac®]

Buy the biggest you can afford and fit in your shop.

I bought a newish 6" Jet for $300.

Three years later, I bought a 1920 8" American Woodworker for $200.

Now I'm in a bigger shop and am hunting for a cheapish 12-16" jointer.

[KingwoodFan1989]

I don't think anyone would ever claim a Grizzly is in the same class as an Oliver.  That said, the more expensive Grizzly machines are well made and will last a life time.  From that perspective what more does one need? 

I live in NY.  

Yeah, but I'd probably only buy one of the more expensive Grizzly machines (over $2500-$5000 for a new 12" Jointer w/spiral head) or an Oliver ($5700 for a brand new 12" jointer w/spiral head) if it was used anyway. I looked more locally on Craigslist (I'm in California). Not sure how soon this posting will expire, but I saw this one. Never heard of the brand before but it's a 3-footed 16" for $1300...again, I'm planning probably a couple years in advance, but it's fun to shop around anyway! Hope more 12" ones show up between now and then!

https://sacramento.craigslist.org/tls/d/...01797.html

[TGW]

L. Power is a very reputable brand of American made woodworking machinery. Not made anymore though Northfield makes a very similar type of jointer.
That type of jointer has much longer dovetailed ways which are a lot less susceptible to wear and missalignment than standard modern jointers with short ways. As the wedge with the ways in it is a separate casting bolted to the table it is possible to shim the tables straight and flat.


Myself I have a 24" capacity jointer/planer combination. With paralellogram movement on the infed table. Made in Sweden in 1957. 
I have only once needed it's full width but then it saved me from lots of extra trouble. I planed a tabletop in one pass.

If you are a hobbyist you aren't likely to need anything bigger than 12 or maybe 16 inches in my uppinion. My first jointer/planer was 10 inches wide and that is just about minimum size in my oppinion. Any smaller and the joy of the hobby would be turned into frustration. Especially when using rough sawn timber as I always use because it is a lot cheaper and that price difference pays off a better jointer and a better planer over time.
However as most hobbyists look for small machines you may get a good deal on a bigger jonter secondhand and if you have room for it you should get it of cause.

Personally I am a fan of secondhand machines. Because then a much superrior industrial grade machine can be had for the same amount of money as a hobby machine. However one has to one's research properly.

-Old gibbed two knife heads are all right. They are usually a good deal thicker than modern heads which takes out some of the disadwantage of having two knives instead of four. If you feed just a little bit slower you get a good surface even by today's standards.
-Old clamshell heads are dangerous. The knives are held by caps held by bolts in tension. Bolts in tension are prone to metal fatigue over time and if a couple of bolts break the knife comes flying at you. 
-Old square heads are even more dangerous. There is the same risk for metal fatigue and thrown knives and furthermore there is also a risk that the cutterhead may catch your hand and pull it down and chop it off.

In your country you have access to reasonably priced spiral cutterhead and I know some have bought old jointers with chamshell or square heads for scrap value and ordered a new head for it. That way they got a super solid top of the range cast iron jointer with a top of the range modern head for roundabout the same cost as a new hobby grade jointer.

Some old jointers have babbitt bearings. They are as good as modern ball bearings but you have to lubricate with oil every day and once worn out the bearing metal must be melted out and new bearings cast in place and hand scraped to fit. I have done that operation on my rip saw (manufactured in 1885) and it wasn't very difficult but it was very time consuming.

Look at the Vintage Machinery Forum and ask them for further advice if you are interrested in secondhand.

[KingwoodFan1989]

Good to know that it's a reputable brand. Did they make 12" ones? I don't think I need a 16" one. That may change in the next couple years, but I kinda doubt it.

Are you a hobbyist or a professional (or somewhere in between)? I'm sure at some point I'd love to build furniture and stuff for others on an occasional basis, but I'm just a hobbyist for now.

As for the rest of what you said, I'll have to look up what those other cutterheads look like. How much do the jointers with those heads typically cost? Not sure how much a 12" Byrd Shelix cutterhead would be for one, but if the total cost was less than about $1200 I'd definitely consider that. I can do with a regular 3 or 4 knife head if that's already in place, though...at least if the price is within my range.

[packerguy®]

There is no correct answer.

But I was always told the rule of thumb is half the size of your planner. So a benchtop ---> 6", 15" stationary----> 8".....20" stationary ---> 12"....reason being is you can face joint a board fully (by rotating it after the first pass). 

With that being said, I have a 6" with a 15" stationary planner. So I break my rule. 


I dont see the value in taking up space with a larger jointer, cause I generally edge joint.