Just wondering

[TadMcD]

is there some ancient chinese secret for cutting, to the correct length, on the first (or at least second) attempt, a dang miter cut for face frames (or, anything, for that matter).

i saw some esoteric calculator thingy once. didn't work at all.

i have to believe nibbling my way to nirvana just can't be right.

[be gentle...i'm a newbie...]

[cvillewood]

Using a stop on a sled/miter Gauge is a pretty good way.

[K. L. McReynolds]

is there some ancient chinese secret for cutting, to the correct length, on the first (or at least second) attempt, a dang miter cut for face frames (or, anything, for that matter).

i saw some esoteric calculator thingy once. didn't work at all.

i have to believe nibbling my way to nirvana just can't be right.

[be gentle...i'm a newbie...]

For face frames, I simply use the inside width/length of the opening(s) as the starting point.

For picture frames, I cut the first miter, lay the glass/glass template/picture in the rabbet and mark+ 1/8". Transfer where the mark touches the vertical edge of the rabbet and transfer that mark to the top of the stock. Mark the angle to bisect that mark and cut, just taking the line.

Set the TS sled/miter gauge extension stop to the correct length and cut the second piece.

Repeat for different lengths.

I'm not good with math, so failed to be able to use the formulas for cutting to length using stock width/other measurements. This method may be more work, but it only fails when I do not pay attention.

I forgot to mention, I ceased trying to get good miter cuts(for picture frames/faceframes) on a miter box. I have a DeWalt 12" compound miter saw. I have a Fine Finish blade(Freud) as one blade. Problem? That blade flexes just a tiny bit or the stock moves just a tad, creating a step cut. That causes gaps in miters.

I finally just started using the same blade(in a 10" size) and either a home made sled or an Incra V-27 miter gauge with an extension.

[ed kerns]

I usually cut miters with a chop saw. The obvious first step is to make certain your saw is truly at 45 degrees. This requires test cuts or a saw set up and dedicated to cutting miters.  If the length of the piece allows (and it typically does), I will use a stop block. I also often cut the two opposing sides at the same time, ensuring that they are of identical length. Like so much of woodworking, accurate miters are all about the set-up. Please note that all of the above only guarantees a square and accurate frame - not that the frame will be sized perfectly to it's intended use!

[Gary G™]

Tad,
A couple of things help:
A blade which won't flex when you make the cut.
Getting an accurate Mark: I measure, cut a tad longer, then trial fit.
To me, a flawless miter is more important than getting it right on the first cut.

Sometimes, I have to do finish trim and all I have access to is my chintzy travel chop saw.
Here's my dirty little secret for a really good fit:

Once I have the mark for a proper fit, with the saw off I bring the blade down to the mark. I align the edge of the tooth just off the line. Double check, then cut.
Now, without lifting the blade, I push my stock tight to the blade. Lift the blade and recut--taking off a shaving right at my mark. No blade flex and a tight fit.
This has worked for me through many projects.

[Admiral]

Cut them proud of a layout line, the build a simple shooting board for a #5 handplane, and sneak up to the line. That, or find yourself an old Lion Miter Trimmer from Pootatuck RI, there's a reason they had them in picture frame shops. It's just that sometimes, power tools aren't the answer.

[Cian]

Two approaches explained above. Using sleds with power tools by Mac, and shooting boards with hand tools by Admiral. Pick your poison, but remember - all of this is worthless if your math, layout lines, or even your jigs themselves are slightly off. So the old adage of “Measure twice - Cut once” holds very true here.



But don’t fret too much about mistakes. We all have our share of “Ohh snap!” incidents, and we will all still continue to have them for as long as we enter our woodshops. It goes hand in hand in this wonderful hobby.

Cian - adding no value whatsoever

[Willyou]

All of the above.
Plus
Stop measuring (with a tape or ruler).
Of course, the very first pieces of a project must be measured; usually to set the overall project size. But, when it's time to cut matching front, back, end, etc, pieces, don't measure, mark the cut with a marking knife using the first piece cut as a reference or use a story stick. Then use applicable suggestions above. You will usually reach a point in all projects where it is more important to cut to fit rather than cut to the plans. Doing this you will find the accuracy of your work will increase and your mental errors will decrease.

Also, If you have the need for multiple identical pieces, make all the pieces with a single machine setup if possible. Such as cutting pieces to the same length by using a stop.

[TadMcD]

Thank you ALL for the insights, tips, and patience.

So, what I was doing was putting a face frame on a really simple birch plywood cabinet (actually, a charging station for SWMBO's various drills and whatnots). I'm not sure if the wood is maple or cherry; I found it laying about (herself abhors oak; she also doesn't like drawers...my much more caveman style copy of this piece has a spectacular dovetail drawer, but no face trim).

The top has two miters, each 22.5 degrees since I chopped off the front corners of the sides for some "zing" (admittedly, my version of "zing" is a LOT different and much more simple than the stuff I see on this forum, but hey, it's a start). I think I stole the idea from somewhere on the interwebsphere.

The full "face" for one side of the piece was three different pieces. I used my miter saw with a new Freud blade (stout), cut "close" to the right length, and then "snuck up" on the final length(s). With some patience and guidance from you folks, it came out perfectly.

Good project for me. I got to use almost everything in the shop (jointer and planer with new shelix cutter heads, table saw, router, my new dado cutter) and it gave me some insight to the face frame stuff (if that's what it's called) and work with somewhat more "delicate" pieces. Truthfully, I wanted some practical experience before building a router table.

A bit embarrassed to post a picture; it's really not much of a piece, but here you go...

   

[jppierson]

I don't see anything whatsoever to be embarrassed about! Nice project.