Sharpness question

[Tynyyn]

I have a set of crappy Harbor Freight chisels that I try to sharpen down to 1000. I kid you not, that when I try to pare any kind of wood I could do better with a hammer and masons chisel. Either my chisels are total crap (Yes, I will raise my hand to that notion) or my sharpening technique sucks.(I'll semi raise my hand to that).

After seeing the Japanese slice very thin curls, I really don't like the idea of spending 30+ minutes huffing and puffing for a edge that sharp. Yea, it sounds like I'm lazy, but with the modern conveinences of 10,000 grit stones it seems to me that a couple of swipes on a Norton stone should be all it takes to accomplish a keen edge. Not spending half the morning trying to get an edge is what I'm after. Maybe I should toss my tools away and just say I'm not a wood worker but just a butcher of wood. ( But then I'd have to learn how to sharpen a chain saw blade, duh).

Arch_E and Derek, you gave me great input and I appreciate your time chiming in on this topic. I watch guys like Rob Cosman and how easily it is for him to get an edge on an iron and I wish I had that skill set. Practice makes perfect, but it sure doesn't hurt to have a pocket full of cash to but the right tools and stones.

Maybe I'll just settle for 1000 grit sand paper and be happy. Otherwise I might wind up a lot poorer chasing dreams.

[Strokes77]

I have a set of crappy Harbor Freight chisels that I try to sharpen down to 1000.  I kid you not, that when I try to pare any kind of wood I could do better with a hammer and masons chisel.  Either my chisels are total crap (Yes, I will raise my hand to that notion) or my sharpening technique sucks.(I'll semi raise my hand to that).  

After seeing the Japanese slice very thin curls, I really don't like the idea of spending 30+ minutes huffing and puffing for a edge that sharp.  Yea, it sounds like I'm lazy, but with the modern conveinences of 10,000 grit stones it seems to me that a couple of swipes on a Norton stone should be all it takes to accomplish a keen edge. Not spending half the morning trying to get an edge is what I'm after.  Maybe I should toss my tools away and just say I'm not a wood worker but just a butcher of wood. ( But then I'd have to learn how to sharpen a chain saw blade, duh).

Arch_E and Derek, you gave me great input and I appreciate your time chiming in on this topic.  I watch guys like Rob Cosman and how easily it is for him to get an edge on an iron and I wish I had that skill set.  Practice makes perfect, but it sure doesn't hurt to have a pocket full of cash to but the right tools and stones.  

Maybe I'll just settle for 1000 grit sand paper and be happy.  Otherwise I might wind up a lot poorer chasing dreams.

Tynyyn, don't take this the wrong way.  But, with the right sharpening technique, any chisel, even HF, can pare wood easily.  I am confident that I can sharpen my butter knife in the kitchen to pare wood easily, as could Cosman.  The butter knife, and most likely your HF Chisels, will NOT last long.  potentially just 1 or 2 paring cuts... but when it comes from the stones it will be sharp!

I would look critically at your technique before I would sharpening media.

[Mr Eddie]

You didn't mention how you sharpen.  I'm able to get decent results using one of those $10-$15 vise type honing guides with just a couple of grits and a minute on the strop.  You do need to spend some time initially and get the back flat so you can get a nice edge to work.  I don't get too carried away with it.

Lonnie

[hbmcc]

I have a set of crappy Harbor Freight chisels that I try to sharpen down to 1000.  I kid you not, that when I try to pare any kind of wood I could do better with a hammer and masons chisel.  Either my chisels are total crap (Yes, I will raise my hand to that notion) or my sharpening technique sucks.(I'll semi raise my hand to that).  
SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>

You owe yourself a gift from Santa, real chisels. 

I bought a Chinese-made 'Japanese' chisel from Grizzly. A cheap experiment. It felt like I was chopping ice, and the chisel was the ice. Took quite a while and much persuasion from Wilbur for me to even consider Japanese chisels after that experience. Maintenance of J. chisels is not a simple process. You are dealing with steel approaching files in hardness. HF is a given. A $5 pack of chisels is probably slag fluxed from the pot melt destined for coat hangars. 

Amazon might get you that order the same day. Merry Christmas.

[bandit571]

I go up to 2500 grit, and then maybe 15-20 strokes on the strop......I work anything from Pine up through to the Ash I am working on now.  I don't change the routine to suit the wood... haven't found the need.   Arm hair test?
  That is what a razor is for...I sharpen to work wood, not hair. 


Micron thin shavings are very nice, if all you are doing is showing off to others...
...doesn't get the work done in the shop....would take all day at a micron at a time.....

[tnff]

I'd consider getting a couple of better chisels and try your technique on them before anything else.  I'm no where near the expert these guys are, but I've been able to reasonably sharpen my 1990s vintage craftsman and Stanley just as well as the Marples my wife gave me a few years ago.  But my Harbor Freight she gave me, well I don't think you could sharpen them with a laser.  The steel just won't take an edge, it crumbles away when I approach sharpness.  Of course she gave them to me so they stay right there in the tool chest where they'll be safe and not get damaged.

[Timberwolf]

Yes. 

A smoother edge has, by definition, less serrations, and is less likely to fracture in use. In other words, it will last longer.

A smoother edge glides through wood more easily - a "sharper" edge makes working with handtools not only easier, but safer and more pleasurable.

If you are working with softwood end grain especially (such as dovetailing), then edges need to be very sharp. Ditto if you are working with hardwood and planing face grain (to avoid chatter)

If you are working with 1000 grit, then you have not experienced the possibilities of a higher hone. Merry Christmas!


Regards from Perth

Derek

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
What Derek said !!!!!!

[Hank Knight]

When you climb the scale of increasingly finer grits, you reach a point of diminishing returns. Where that point is is pretty subjective. Some people are perfectly content at the 1K level and do fine work. Others get absorbed with the technicalities of sharpening media and pursue the finest edge imaginable up to grits on the 20K range. I am more interested in woodworking than in the technicalities of sharpening; so for me, the super fine sharpening media are a waste of time. I agree with Derek's comments that working with sharp tools is safer and more pleasureable than working with dull ones. My cutoff is about 8,000 grit. I get a polished edge with 8K that is reasonably durable and is suitable for just about any work I may have. I may sharpen kitchen knives to 1K, but I would not be satisfied stopping at 1K with my woodworking tools.

If you are considering adding an 8,000 grit stone to your sharpening kit, you may be disappointed trying to jump from your 1,000 grit stone to an 8,000 grit one. To get the benefit of an 8K stone, you need to polish away the scratches left by earlier, coarser stones and end up with a mirror polished edge. An 8K stone cuts very slowly, so polishing away scratches left by your relatively coarse 1K stone will take a very long time. You should consider adding an intermediate stone - say a 4,000 grit one - between the 1K and the 8K. It will eliminate the deep scratches left by the 1K stone and leave much shallower ones that are more quickly polished away by the 8,000 grit stone. You probably don't need to strop after the 8K stone. I do because it was the way I was taught and stropping is an ingrained habit. I think you will notice a significant improvement in the efficiency and pleasure of using your tools if you refine your sharpening regimen to include 4K and 8K stones.

Hank

[cputnam]

Or - consider Stu's famous 3 stone set: 1000, 6000, 13000.

I clamp the tool in the Veritas MKII honing guide and work on the 1K stone until it is done. About 1/2 to 1/3 that time on the 6K, and a few strokes on the 13K. I spend almost as much time getting the tool clamped in the honing guide as I do honing. I now trust the process.

[Bibliophile 13]

I would say yes, you should hone to a higher grit.  I do, though I can't tell you what that grit is.  For everyday maintenance sharpening, I mostly use a soft Arkansas stone followed by a strop charged with green compound.  The strop leaves a nice, polished cutting edge.  Polish is important because it reduces the friction produced while cutting, which is part of why a freshly honed edge seems to cut almost effortlessly.  

My question is this: if you're not stropping or honing to a high grit, how are you removing the wire edge?  It should separate cleanly (sometimes you'll even see it) as you polish the edge on the strop. 

Two more comments on what's been said above:

1. Sharpening should be quick.  Once you get a method down and establish a rhythm, it shouldn't take more than 3-4 minutes to hone an edge.  If you're taking 10 minutes to resharpen a single edge, then you need to find a way to be more efficient, either by starting with a higher grit or moving more efficiently.  Even if you're working through a lot of grits, you should be spending 80%-90% of your time on the highest grit reestablishing the edge.  Don't spend equal time on each grit.

2. I agree with what's been said above about being able to put a razor edge on any steel edge, and I can do that, too--but only if the steel is good.  I have a couple kitchen knives that I only keep around as cheese knives because the steel is bad.  Try as I might, I can't put an edge on them.  It just dubs right over.  It's bad steel, and there's nothing much you can do about that.  This can happen to woodworking tools, too, although vintage tools usually have good steel.  But once in a while you find an old tool whose cutting edge has been overheated on a grinder, and the temper is drawn.  Then you have to grind it back to the good steel.  Most new tools, even cheap ones, have pretty good steel in them.  Here and there you'll find a dud that won't hold an edge.  Use those to open your paint cans.