Adapter to use Lithium batteries in Nicad tools

[Phil Thien]

I don't think the motors in any of these tools draw sufficient current to cause any problems for lithium ion batteries.

Were that the case, it is doubtful the tool would have worked sufficiently well on NiCad cells.

[EvilTwin]

Ordered these off Amazon for 60:



Refurb but with a year warranty, free shipping.  I don't really need another drill, I think I have about 6 between the cordless varieties and 2 corded versions.  Would like to have gotten a larger battery, but will see how well these do. They are 2ah versions.

[pprobus]

I don't think the motors in any of these tools draw sufficient current to cause any problems for lithium ion batteries.

Were that the case, it is doubtful the tool would have worked sufficiently well on NiCad cells.

I agree.  I think this is a case of too much "book" knowledge and not enough real world experience.  Granted this was 25+ years ago, but I had a Pro B&D 9.6V drill that I thought was every bit as good, if not better, as the Makita that was the "it" cordless drill back then.  A couple of years later B&D dropped their "Pro" line, re-colored the tools yellow and renamed them DeWalt's, but were unchanged from the B&D Pro tools for the first couple of years.  Then they changed to the T-style with clutch settings (pretty much the same style drill DeWalt still uses today except the new ones have a new battery shape since they switched to LIons) offered 9.6V, 12V and 14.4V (I don't think the 18V came out for a couple of years), I asked for and received the first gen. 14.4V drill for Christmas after they were released.  Curious I opened both drills up, side by side and found that the motor in the 14.4V drill was the exact same manufacturer and model # as that used in the B&D 9.6V drill that I owned.  That is a fact.  Unfortunately back then we didn't have cell phone cameras, digital cameras did not exist or if they did they were very low quality, very expensive and not widely available, I wasn't wasting film on photographing something as boring as drill innards.  While I can't comment on new cordless drills for certain, I believe its clear that these little DC motors can be run over a wide range of input voltage with little ill effects.  Some of the non-motorized add-ons may not be as forgiving, such as the radios, CFL or LED based lights, etc. but the motor driven tools should be fine.  Unfortunately, I seem to recall that I could not exchange the batteries between the B&D and the T-style DeWalt, so I could not test my theory, but I wholeheartedly believe that the increase in torque and speed of the 14.4V drill over the 9.6V was purely the additional voltage since the motors were the same.  I recall comparing specs between the three drills, after this, and I believe that backed me up in that the 9.6V drill was similar to the specs of the B&D but in a different style, the 12V had a little higher torque and speed and the 14.4V had another step up in both, which pointed to me that all three likely shared the same motor, the only different factor was the battery for each size was different, but at least the 12V and 14.4V could be interchanged between tools, I think the 9.6V could be too (DeWalt, as stated earlie, I do not believe the old style B&D was compatible), but I only know for sure the 12V and 14.4V since, as I mentioned in my previous reply, I had the 12V incandescent, angle light and used my 14.4V batteries in it.

[prscustom24]

Nearly all current tools have "battery related smarts", please cite an example of any that do not.

The simple answer to the OPs question is that you cannot safely put a LiIon battery on a NiCad tool unless the tool was designed to accept both.

Sorry, bud, a tool that was designed prior to the invention of LiIon batteries could not possibly have anticipated them, yet I have such tools successfully and safely using them for a number of years now. What I have done is retire all of my old NiCad battery chargers and only use chargers that will accept LiIon batteries, which are all I now use for my mix of tools originally designed to run NiCad batteries. 

The facts are these: a tool is a load. Under ordinary circumstances a load cannot determine its source. A smart charger, however, can and does determine battery type before it applies full charging power.

[EvilTwin]

Sorry, bud, a tool that was designed prior to the invention of LiIon batteries could not possibly have anticipated them, yet I have such tools successfully and safely using them for a number of years now. What I have done is retire all of my old NiCad battery chargers and only use chargers that will accept LiIon batteries, which are all I now use for my mix of tools originally designed to run NiCad batteries. 

The facts are these: a tool is a load. Under ordinary circumstances a load cannot determine its source. A smart charger, however, can and does determine battery type before it applies full charging power.

Let me jump in here in defense of what Geek is saying.  I did do some research after this all started and as I stated several posts above, the issue with lithium batteries is that they can't be drawn down too far in terms of their load and voltage.  Nicads and NiMh batteries didn't have this issue.  Tools designed to use lithium batteries either have a circuit in the tool itself or in the battery pack that will cut out the battery if it drops below a certain voltage.  As far as the user is concerned, the battery is "drained" even if it isn't, but it protects the battery.  They also have separate requirements for charging as I think most people are aware of.  

He is right that there is a potential danger here if somehow a battery was depleted too fast or too low, but I think it can be worked around through judicious use/monitoring the speed and power of the tool as you use it.  And as other folks are saying,  practical experience has shown that it is a viable solution.  

Somebody else mentioned something about just moving on to newer tools, which I think was the most tone deaf response.  Why should anybody just abandon some really good tools if there is a method that will keep them running for years to come and all it requires is some ingenuity and time.  Jumping off the soap box now..

I'll post some pix when I get the batteries in this week and get to test it out.

[Stwood_]

Looks like a BAT040 battery top.
Do you have a link where you bought that?
Thanks

[Phil Thien]

He is right that there is a potential danger here if somehow a battery was depleted too fast or too low, but I think it can be worked around through judicious use/monitoring the speed and power of the tool as you use it.

Li Ion batteries are troublesome to charge, if discharged beyond a certain point.

Beyond that, what other dangers are there if you discharge completely?

[EvilTwin]

Li Ion batteries are troublesome to charge, if discharged beyond a certain point.

Beyond that, what other dangers are there if you discharge completely?

From what I understand, they can overheat. Whether that would cause a fire or somehow damage the battery, I'm not sure.

[EvilTwin]

Looks like a BAT040 battery top.
Do you have a link where you bought that?
Thanks

Here is the link to the ebay listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/252534321159

Fitment is pretty good, not perfect, so some fiddling will be necessary.  You reuse the top of one old pack and take the old terminals, solder new leads to them down to two new brass contacts for the lithium pack. Then you glue the old terminals in the top and the new ones down in the 3d part.  After that, you reuse the screws to put it all back together.  I think this will be where the fiddling comes in, will probably need some shims between the old top and new part so the latch mechanism works correctly.  

He also has an adapter that will let you use Dewalt batteries on Bosch tools as well as adapters for other makes.  His price is 35 plus shipping, which isn't cheap, but figure it has probably 5-10 worth of plastic in it as well as machine time to print it and he probably designed the part too.  If you have to fab something up, I can see this taking several hours of work and probably not be as clean a design.

If you look online, some folks have cannibalized a cheap drill like a B&D and then used the bottom part with the connections for the battery pack.  Others have used some sheet plastic or foam board to make an adapter as well.  Some google searching will probably turn up more than a few.

Doesn't look too bad, uses foam board I think:



Not pretty, uses bottom of donor drill:

[prscustom24]

Well, that's. . . . quite a kludge. But, as they said in the Navy: if it works, you're a hero.

I should have added in my post above that all my LiIon batteries come standard with 3-color charge level monitors built in. I don't let them get into the red.