Posts: 1,806
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2010
Woody
If I remember correctly it has been a long while
My experience was the bearings fitt easily in the bore of the case so press fit the bearings on the shafts first then push them in the case if they are press fit to the case in your gear case then it will be more difficult
One end has to slip out when you separate the cover so the bearings can not fit to tight in the case
I think you will find that the shaft assembly will just pull right out with very little effort then the small gear set has one gear pressed on to one end 527 onto 526 that may require a puller or press dont loose key 525
I have a press but I don't remember this coming apart hard at all
On the king planer I used a vice for all the pressing just because I was were there was no press
You can remove the larger gear set buy pulling them and the bearing off the end together
CATCH THE BALL and spring when you separate it
The bearings should spin free with no rough spots the gear 523 must fit free on shaft 522 and slid on the shaft and key way 521
replace oring 509 on shift shaft make sure shift F O R K is flat not bent in any manner
That whole gear case is very straight forward besides the spinning stuff there is only one moving part the large gear set number 523 so make cerntain it slids readily on its shaft then add the detent ball and spring and move it again makeing sure it detents in three places
Did this planner shift ok then change or was it not shifting right since new ?
If it never shifted correctly then it may be more serious than gears
I do not remember if the seal went in from the back or if it can be pressed in after I have seal drivers for seals but sockets pipe ETC work OK
The feed rollers must spin freely with the chain off or when it is assembled they will stop you from shifting that's why I asked about them make sure they are not the problem before you replace anything
THE FEED ROLLS HAVE TO BE ABLE TO COAST WHILE YOU SHIFT THE GEARS FROM HIGH OR LOW TO NEUTRAL BACK TO LOW OR HIGH
IF THEY DONT COAST MOMENTARILY YOU NOW HAVE YOUR CAR STOPED AND NO CLUTCH SO TO SPEAK
they run on bushings so they may spin slightly harder those bushings are manually oiled you are doing this correct ?
They have a bit of mass so they will redally coast momentarily unless they are partially seized up
Did you try shifting it STOPED after you removed the indeed drive chain ? It should have readily shifted buy just slowly turning the drive sprocket if the problem lays in a the feed rollers
Or did you just take it apart ?
Posts: 1,806
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2010
Woody I went back and reread you said you just could not even shift to neutral so a gear stuck on the shaft or bent makes sense
bent shift fudge would be same as loose bolt check that to
Posts: 42
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2014
Oakey,
I think it has been this way from the beginning. It never bothered me because the planer worked fine and the infeed rollers didn't need to be adjusted. Now I don't think I was correct that the gears won't shift into neutral. It may have been in neutral but the rollers were not able to spin enough to shift to loAw. I will oil the rollers and see if that helps. If it doesn't, what is my next step? Could this be the result of insufficient oiling of the rollers from the top ports?
Also, I don't notice the fudge having a detente in 3 places. How do I check this and fix? So many questions.
Posts: 1,806
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2010
Woody
The larger double gear has three groves cut in it one for each speed and neutral if it is missing a grove ( very doughtfull they are not there ) just slide the sliding gear and you can feel it detent in all three
The feed rollers have to be free yes failure to oil them regularly may be all or part of the problem
They have to be free or it will not shift from high to low or vice versa you could get it to neutral and MAYBE luckily get it to the other speed but thats is not how it suppose to work
The feed rolls are bushing so they are not going to spin like they would with bearings but they should feel very free lube them and see if they free up they have to be free enought that the shaft can coast
If it was mine and I had it apart and that sliding gear just slid back and forth I would just set the gear box back together with a couple bolts using the old gasket old seals put the sprocket on the out put shaft and see if i could shift it buy Moving my shift lever and turning the out put sprocket slightly as I pulled or pushed the fudge lever
no chain so the feed rolls are not in the equation I am assuming the machine is unplugged so you are shifting it STOPED ok to do as you are aligning the gears buy turning the output shaft
I would put a dial indicator on that sliding gear FIRST to see how true it ran and check the bearings then temporarily reassemble the gear case with out the gear oil
That sliding gear that looks crooked /warped in the picture don't mean it is no good provided it runs true the picture you have posted is not real clear to my old eyes
Some times beeing cautious taking things apart pays big dividends ( called hind sight ) removing The chain from the feed rolls then trying to shift it would either confirm or eliminate them as the problem
If the bolt loosens on that shift fudge you will be able to turn the shaft and it will have some play the tight bolt and the shift fudge are all that holds the shift rod from turning round and round that would have determined that the fudge bolt was not loose before you disassembled the case it did not need to be disassembled to determine loose shift fudge F O R K please we are not baking
Posts: 42
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2014
Oakey,
I think I can eliminate the rollers as part of the problem. I oiled both and they turn much better although as you said not as freely as if it were turning in a bearing instead of the block. My only concern is if this is enough to allow the shaft to "coast".
I looked at the large 2 gear shaft and I still can't see any grooves for detents. I move the shaft back and forth into both gears without any clicking or other sign of a detent. I assume the ball and compression spring on the shaft are for this but I cant see the grooves you're talking about. Can you point to where I need to look? What does it feel like when it is in the detent?
I put a dial indicator on both large gears. There was one area on each where they were out of round, one about 10/1000 and the other half of that. The variance was in opposite directions, whatever that means. I assume this means that double gear definitely needs replacing. I don't know how to check the bearing as you suggested without removing the shaft completely from the box but I did try to move it with the sprocket and it will move but not would I would call freely. I also pulled the rod back and turned the sprocket and it would go into low gear. Do I need to test the bearing some other way, and then put the cover back on and push and pull the rod while turning the sprocket? Thanks so much again.
Posts: 1,806
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2010
Woody
The detent groves are inside the sliding gear if you look at the parts break down you can't see them only the detent ball and spring I do not know how to post pictures or I would just go to my shop and take some of that gear removed i have a complete new set of those gears and lots of used ones from my gear case problems
there is three groves machined into the inside bore that ball is spring loaded so it expands into a grove to hold the gear in place other wise it would just wonder out of gear while it was running the gear has to be removed to see them I very much dought that the groves are not there but you should feel a definite three detents
The end bearing needs to be removed to slide the gear free that is when you need to catch the ball and spring
Guessing it is possible for the detent ball or spring to be missing or spring is broken my feeling is if that was the case you would have had trouble with it staying in gear
My experience was that those shafts along with the brg just pulled right out of there bores with very little persuasion if you elect to further disassemble the gear box
what I would suggest just put the cover on temporarily and see if you can shift easily stopped with little problem other than slightly turning the output shaft to a line the teeth
It should have a definite feel of all three positions DETENTS
When I say coast I don't mean it should go on turning forever I mean it can not come to a binding stop that feed rolls turns very slowly so it's not going to spin but when you shift it the rolls needs to go right back to turning with no effort
When in operation the small gear set never stops picture them spinning
Then when you shift to neutral if for any reason the two sliding gears come to a screeching halt because they are bound up then when you try to get it back in gear it will not want to go
In operation the heavy gear oil helps some but that larger sliding gear set should be able to coast momentarily
That is why I say shift it like you mean it while it is running the large gears and both shafts still are turning or should be free to do so
Also why you can not shift it in use because then it cerntanly would come to a screeching halt
As I said before that gear box is not an example of fine machining .010 might be OK I would be more concerned if the gears looked worn or had burrs on the teeth from shift attempts
Posts: 42
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2014
Oakey,
I looked again for the detent and believe the spring and ball are missing. When the double gear is on how speed, you can say about half of the hole on the shaft. I assume with the ball in the groove would stop hole in the groove and it would not be visible. I put the gearbox back on and turned the sprocket by hand and was able to get the rod to engage all the gears eventually. It still feels to me like that shaft is not turnig as freely as it should which I assume is a bearing problem. Also checked the other gears and although they don't look notiiceably damaged, there were some markings. I just went ahead and ordered replacements for the gears, shaft ,bearings ,ball and compression. Unfortunately the double gear is on backorder. Now I'm almost tempted to put everything back together and see if it will work, then tear it apart again when the double gear comes. I can't thank you enough for your generous help.
Posts: 42
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2014
(05-30-2018, 10:49 PM)woodydixon Wrote: Oakey,
I looked again for the detent and believe the spring and ball are missing. When the double gear is on how speed, you can say about half of the hole on the shaft. I assume with the ball in the groove would stop hole in the groove and it would not be visible. I put the gearbox back on and turned the sprocket by hand and was able to get the rod to engage all the gears eventually. It still feels to me like that shaft is not turnig as freely as it should which I assume is a bearing problem. Also checked the other gears and although they don't look notiiceably damaged, there were some markings. I just went ahead and ordered replacements for the gears, shaft ,bearings ,ball and compression. Unfortunately the double gear is on backorder. Now I'm almost tempted to put everything back together and see if it will work, then tear it apart again when the double gear comes. I can't thank you enough for your generous help.
Oakey,
Parts were on back order and just received them..Today I pulled the bearing off the double gear shaft but cant remove the gear because it is stopped by the smaller gear when I try to pull it out. Do I have to remove the smaller gear, no 526 first, then pull the shaft together with the bearing in the cover out? If so, do I pull the gear and bearing together or do I have to pull the bearing first then the gear next? When I removed the sprocket to try to pull that way I apparently dropped a key in the end of the shaft which I cant find. The hardware store had a key that fit the keyway but is too long so I guess i will have to cut it to size. Never realized how much I used my planer until alll this happened.. Thanks again for your help
Woody
Posts: 42
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2014
Tried again to remove the gears but failed. Seems to me the smaller 2 gears and shafts next to the large double gear have to be removed first. The outer shaft and bearing will come out with hand pressure but then the shaft is blocked by the gear next to it . That shaft will not come out of the case with hand pressure and my bearing puller will not get under the gear to try to pry that up. Assuming I find a way to get them out, do they then go back in together after the double gear and shaft are reseated? Any suggestions are appreciated.
Woody
Posts: 1,806
Threads: 0
Joined: Feb 2010
Woody
Gear412 the small double gear (gears cast toghter are usully refered to as cluster gears ) has to be removed far enough forward to allows the larger double to slide buy
Gear 408 will have to be out enough to allow that
none of the bearings or gears on my 453 were pressed in much more than hand pressure
Nor was the simular king planer I repaired
If yours has tighter tolerances you may need to take it to a shop with a proper puller and a press
