What happened to Wenzolff and Sons?

[TraditionalToolworks]

I think Tony is correct that glued-back saws can't be straightened......at least that is what Mark Harrell says.

Mike,

This is a follow up to your comment above.

Here's Mark Harrell's article.

http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/pdf/Demystifying.pdf

I will say that I can't for the life me is see how having a saw plate in a vise, and wacking on the back with a hammer will do anything to the tooth line. Maybe I'm missing something.

Are there actually people that believe this? I'm trying to get my head around it, but it ain't working for me...


Had a real disappointment tonight. Went over looking on Sawmill Creek. Saw you were in a thread with Pete Taran, where he was defending the recent made in mexico nicholson files. Place me in the same camp as that Stewie Simpson member, I bought a bunch of made in mexico files from Pete Taran about 6 or 7 years ago, I've never bought another file from Pete since. In fact, I literally threw them away I thought they were so bad. If I was the worker that made the files I got, I would be embarrassed. I have quite a bit of respect for Pete in how he created the slotted back, but saw files is something I won't be heeding advice from him on.

Honestly I read that thread on "Saw Files" and was shaking my head...

About 10 years ago Pete used to carry Bahco files and they were pretty good, made in Portugal...but then they went downhill and he got a bad batch. Then that Nicholson experience I had with him, that was it...I don't care what he says, I don't care if they were just a bad batch, the end result is they were a waste of my money. A vendor should look at the files to at least see if they look ok, Pete shipped Nicholsons to me that were some of the worst looking files I've ever seen in my life. The tangs were cracked and bent, some of the files weren't even straight...

These days I try to use Grobet or Pferd, I seem to get decent quality files from those vendors. I haven't had to buy any in a number of years.

Pete was so busy praising the Foley filer in that thread I was almost gonna send him my Tom Law video on saw sharpening...


Alan

[C. in Indy]

Some time back I was browsing Instagram posts; one guy had a Bad Axe dovetail saw which he "bowed" and then "straightened" (on video) with the plate in the vice, tapping the spine.

The way of setting the spine is mysterious to me.   Paul Sellers has a way, Mark H. has a way, etc.   Sometimes I'll hold the saw in the air and hit a couple parts of the spine and listen for the audible "pitch" to go up.  It's hard to predict!

Chris

[Tony Z]

First, for decent files, search on MSC. They state country of origin and quality level, besides standing behind their products. Second, I also would recommend the Tom Law DVD on sharpening. His saws were magic compared to any other I have or have used. I was lucky to acquire a number of rehabbed saws from Tom before he passed away, and what I find amusing is, saws that he sold for $15 to $20, are now sold by one tool dealer upwards of $100 each! Tom's widow was still selling rehabbed saws as recently as two years ago at the annual PATINA gathering in Damascus, MD, with pricing just a whisker above Tom's prices. Finally, I have a complete Foley outfit, that I will let go of, with a crapload of carrier bars, etc. It was fun for a month or so, but just because I like mechanical things. I believe I got it around 2006 or 2007 and it's been gathering dust ever since. I would compare it to a dovetail jig: if you got several dozen drawers to dovetail, then the jig is quicker. If you just have one or two saws to file, the Foley will aggravate (besides putting a gentle bend in the plate!).

[Admiral]

I bought a bunch of made in mexico files from Pete Taran about 6 or 7 years ago, I've never bought another file from Pete since. In fact, I literally threw them away I thought they were so bad. If I was the worker that made the files I got, I would be embarrassed. 

Actually, the mexican Nicholsons, now in a blue packaging, are not bad.  Now, not excellent, but are ok; they must have paid attention to their manufacturing issues.  Problem is supply in terms of sizes is limited.  I find them at the Home Depot for $4 or so each but only in 6 slim and extra slim.  Worth it for 8 point saws.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Some time back I was browsing Instagram posts; one guy had a Bad Axe dovetail saw which he "bowed" and then "straightened" (on video) with the plate in the vice, tapping the spine.

A guy "bowed" his saw? On purpose? To see if he could straighten it? Or did it bow in use? If the later I would think that a slotted and epoxied back will not move so it won't bow in the first place. I'm not saying that it will stay perfectly straight, but that it will not magically become "bowed".

Actually, the mexican Nicholsons, now in a blue packaging, are not bad. Now, not excellent, but are ok; they must have paid attention to their manufacturing issues. Problem is supply in terms of sizes is limited. I find them at the Home Depot for $4 or so each but only in 6 slim and extra slim. Worth it for 8 point saws.

The problem with this game is I've BTDT. You don't know if you're gonna get an ok one or one that is crap. I'm sure it's possible Nicholson QA has gotten better, and the files are just better. Do you keep buying bad products until they become usable? I sure don't, and that's primarily why I don't buy files from Pete Taran anymore. I typically go the the simple rule, "Screw me once, shame on you...screw me twice, shame on me...", and this rule couldn't be more true in this case.

First, for decent files, search on MSC.

I have such a hard time ordering from MSC, I know the service is good, they have the product and they ship quick...but you pay through the nose for it. Since they bought and closed down Enco, I still have a bad taste in my mouth. They have been helpful to me a couple times in replacing poorly made products, 2 different long taper backplates for my lathe. It wasted close to a month by the time we got through that mess and I ended up buying a used backplate from a friend. We are in dire need of competition for MSC...the 800 lb. gorilla. I digress...the last files I bought were from Bailey's, where I buy chainsaw parts/consumables. They carry Pferd and Vallorbe I believe, and Gorbet have always been pretty good for me, can't remember where I bought those.

Second, I also would recommend the Tom Law DVD on sharpening.  His saws were magic compared to any other I have or have used.  I was lucky to acquire a number of rehabbed saws from Tom before he passed away

I have one saw that Tom refurbished, it's one of the few British dovetail saws I have. It's not one of my favorite saws, but I take pride knowing that Tom Law refurbished it. I didn't buy it from Tom, the seller had bought it and had Tom refurbish it for him. Tom put cold blue on the saw and the seller told me that Tom did that regularly and had done that to other saws which had been refurbished by him...Are any of yours blued? This might be more so for backsaws rather than full size hand saws since I've seen some of Tom's full size hand saws and they didn't have blue on them.

I find it interesting as I remove the blue from the spring steel I use. It is true that cold blue does add a protective coating that prevents rust, but I have always liked the look of a cleaned and polished plate.


Alan

[Tony Z]

Alan,

I have one backsaw from Tom and at least a dozen handsaws. None had bluing put on them! I spoke to Tom many, many times in the years before he passed, saw him in person at least a half dozen time, saw him at various PATINA sales, and he never spoke of bluing on saws, nor do I recall ever seeing any saws he had for sell, with bluing on them!

T.Z.

[Admiral]

The problem with this game is I've BTDT. You don't know if you're gonna get an ok one or one that is crap. I'm sure it's possible Nicholson QA has gotten better, and the files are just better. Do you keep buying bad products until they become usable? I sure don't, and that's primarily why I don't buy files from Pete Taran anymore. I typically go the the simple rule, "Screw me once, shame on you...screw me twice, shame on me...", and this rule couldn't be more true in this case.

I hear ya; I only went to get some on the recommendation of Darryl Weir who took a flyer and tried them.  Like I said, they are ok, from one file I can get a single pass reshaping and sharpening, and still have enough of the last side left to do a touch up on another saw; all 26" 8pt saws.  Seriously, give one a try, you can't go wrong for $4.... but remember, only the blue packaging....  I got some at a Sears store as well.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Nicholson-6-.../100188490

[bandit571]

Been just walking in to the local Menard's store....usually for other items for the projects I do.....I also buy a Stanley Saw File....$5.95+ tax...for the few times a year I actually sharpen the saws I have.    get about 4-5 saws per file.    No shipping involved....already over there...28 mile drive.   Saws that have finer teeth than 7ppi...get sent out to be sharpened, if needed.

The way these eyes are....things tend to double up when I try to look at small items...like 10ppi saw teeth....they look like 20ppi.

[TraditionalToolworks]

I have one backsaw from Tom and at least a dozen handsaws.  None had bluing put on them!  I spoke to Tom many, many times in the years before he passed, saw him in person at least a half dozen time, saw him at various PATINA sales, and he never spoke of bluing on saws, nor do I recall ever seeing any saws he had for sell, with bluing on them!

That's interesting because I have seen others that he did for the seller of the dovetail saw I have, he was the one who told me how much Tom blued them. Maybe Tom did them for him specific, not sure. It's a nice little saw, just has a fairly thick plate, around .025". Made in London.

Alan

[Tony Z]

That's interesting because I have seen others that he did for the seller of the dovetail saw I have, he was the one who told me how much Tom blued them. Maybe Tom did them for him specific, not sure. It's a nice little saw, just has a fairly thick plate, around .025". Made in London.

Alan

What Tom did was wipe it down with 3 in 1 oil, and the "old timer" wrap in newspaper. I'll be 66 in another month, and I remember the real old timer that sharpened handsaws for my dad (I was maybe 5 or 6 because his house & shed were tore down for a housing project in the late 50's), anyhow he wrapped sharpened saws in newspaper also, no tape. His sharpening shed was about 8' x 8', packed full of saws, his saw bench and a single light bulb, hanging from the rafters.

I have never used a saw by any of the recent saw guys, that was anywhere close to how good Tom Law sharpened.