A Project for the Boss

[Handplanesandmore]

It saddens me to hear that he gets such flack on other forums.

I don't know anything about the comments made on other forums. But the discussion here about glue-ups and getting them square has been respectful, and in fact is made in a generic and general sense, not specifically as a comment critical of Bandit's build. 

I know nothing about Bandit either, but I am sure he is as strong as his work, and can handle any flack comes his way and will handle it in the way he feels right for him. When I do a piece that I am proud of, I will listen but won't necessarily care what others think: you should use a different wood, or you should blah, blah, blah, even when they come from my own family.

Simon

[bandit571]

IF I do have mistakes
  I do not try to hide them....I will try to show how I FIX them.   

usual response to some critics about the wood, joints, tools, etc that I do use.....I usually tell them to build their own version...as they see fit.

I do not sell these projects I do....got to be too much of an actual "JOB".    I make these for friends and family....IF they are happy with the results, THAT is what matters. 

No actual sleep for the past 40 some hours....I tend to be a bit GRUMPY
,   Might be better when I came get a night's sleep. Maybe....


The Boss:  happens to be the Wife..and is over a year older than I am.   Not all that much help doing glue-ups, and such...but...IF the Wife/Boss isn't happy.....
NOBODY is happy.

[Handplanesandmore]

The Boss:  happens to be the Wife..and is over a year older than I am.   Not all that much help doing glue-ups, and such...but...IF the Wife/Boss isn't happy.....
NOBODY is happy.

"Happy wife, happy life" rules....

Simon

[Admiral]

I don't know anything about the comments made on other forums. But the discussion here about glue-ups and getting them square has been respectful, and in fact is made in a generic and general sense, not specifically as a comment critical of Bandit's build. 

I know nothing about Bandit either, but I am sure he is as strong as his work, and can handle any flack comes his way and will handle it in the way he feels right for him. When I do a piece that I am proud of, I will listen but won't necessarily care what others think: you should use a different wood, or you should blah, blah, blah, even when they come from my own family.

Simon

HaHa, well, we've not met, but I betcha Steve is a real character, and one that I'd enjoy bending an elbow with at a bar, and I think we'd have a lot in common.  Forums have one flaw, and that is you can't see the other person so what gets typed can be misinterpreted, then flame wars start and things go downhill.  Example, you can call me a horse's arse to my face with a smile and glint in your eye and in person I'd have no problem with it, and likely return the favor.  

Anyway, I enjoy his ramblings, and he certainly does not have anything to apologize about in terms of his design, choice of technique, etc., its how he wants to do it that matters and frankly some can take it or leave it.  It's all good.

But Steve, you can be a bit ornery at times (
 on my face, glint in my eye), but that's part of your charm!

[AHill]

When you clamp up a large case, its weight can cause the assembly to rack if it is clamped in a stand-up position. If the case is clamped with its front or back lying flat on a bench, the assembly could be clamped out of wind if the bench top is not dead flat. All these and other clamping issues may not happen to a small glue-up like a box or drawer.

Overclamping/un-even clamping (using different types of clamps) can also cause squaring issues to carcass glue-up. But a more common reason is that the joinery part is not done with precision and accuracy to start with, and when the case is clamped, the joinery issues show up.

Simon

I understand that part.  Sometimes bar clamps without any kind of device to ensure square contribute to out-of-square glue-ups.  I use 3D squares when clamping and parallel k-body clamps when I do carcase clamping.  They ensure the carcase remains square during assembly and glue-up.  You can make your own squares and clamp them to the inside corners of whatever you're building.  That's what I do.  I often use the 3D squares on my drawers as well.  I'm currently having to shim some of the drawer slides in my kitchen because the builder didn't ensure things were square and one side of the drawer doesn't close flush.

[Arlin Eastman]

Since none of the above posters were there to "help out".....

Biggest problem...was the door glue ups.....They were also made for a tight fit..but when adjusted AFTER the glue up was done, to correct one stile being out, gaps appear at the top of the door.....second door was done a lot slower, and more attention was paid while clamping.   It was also gap free.  

Drawer front was a bit lop-sided....right side being a bit smaller, height-wise.....drawer side was a 1/16" too wide on the left side.   IF I planed the front and that side to match...drawer front would have been too narrow, height-wise.   A filler strip of the same wood, tapered to match the gap, was used. 


Unlike others, I never have claimed to be perfect....

They were not going after you just trying to answer my question.

The biggest thing I am learning is get help, go slow, dry fit, go slow, go faster when gluing up and check to make sure it is square. 
What other parts did I miss.

[Handplanesandmore]

What other parts did I miss.

Don't forget the bottom or back panel (if housed in blind grooves)!


Don't ask me how I know....
 

Simon

[AHill]

IF I do have mistakes
  I do not try to hide them....I will try to show how I FIX them.   

usual response to some critics about the wood, joints, tools, etc that I do use.....I usually tell them to build their own version...as they see fit.

I do not sell these projects I do....got to be too much of an actual "JOB".    I make these for friends and family....IF they are happy with the results, THAT is what matters. 

No actual sleep for the past 40 some hours....I tend to be a bit GRUMPY
,   Might be better when I came get a night's sleep. Maybe....


The Boss:  happens to be the Wife..and is over a year older than I am.   Not all that much help doing glue-ups, and such...but...IF the Wife/Boss isn't happy.....
NOBODY is happy.

In a forum like this, every thread becomes a learning tool for a whole community of woodworkers.  So, let's keep in mind that while you have certain standards and methods of work, the rest of the woodworking community may not do it your way.  That doesn't make it right or wrong, just different.  So, when folks offer up opinions on how to avoid or fix alignment issues and gaps, it's not necessarily a criticism of your work, but a recommendation to others viewing this thread on a different approach.  

You have way more free time to do these kinds of things than I do, and it seems like your approach is well-thought out.  I admire that.  Heck, it takes me as long or longer just to build a jewelry box than you've taken to build this project.  Kudos to you.  Now get some rest and remember the Boss is the only one you really have to please.

[bandit571]

Most of what I do, and how I do it..falls somewhere between a Norm Abram and a Roy Underhill....

Free Time?   I am Retired....have to do something, in order to stay "busy".  

OK, waiting on the spot in the living room to be cleared out, a bit of floor repair...and maybe re-do an outlet to better handle the plug-ins.   I can go ahead and cut the plywood backs to size.   They were left off, to make the case easier to be hauled up the stairs of the shop.   Once the case is ready to go into the Living Room, I can add the plywood backs, and then slide the case to the wall.  

Problem with the drawer....opening for it was indeed square...triple checked as the face frame was installed.    Turned out, the drawer front blank had a slight taper.....instead of a nice rectangle.....I squared from the bottom edge of it, when cutting the ends.   Even used that same edge when laying out and cutting the dovetails.....what I missed was the top edge was just under 1/8" different  at one end, than the other.    Was running into a lot of that, with that rough-sawn, skip-planed Ash.   Tall end was just the right height, as I set the frame to that.....the right side was the skinny end. 

Door problem:   Opening for the door on the right side,  was square, as i built the face frame.   Half-lap joint was square.    Problem arose with the frame of the Frame & Raised Panel door....Got in a hurry,,,and squared ( I thought) the end that was crooked.....turn out it is was square, the square USED was not..and the top edge was cut at an angle....IF I had re-cut it to square it up..would have lost too much material....was better to just add the filler strip.  

Door did have "issues" during the glue-up....bottom rail of the door wasn't  squared up.    Stiles then tried to match up....one wound up being "lower" than the other....was able to hammer adjust while in the clamps.    A diagonal clamp ( like I use on box builds) would not fit....other clamps and cauls were in the way.

One thing to watch out for.....the stiles tended to bow a bit....even with the clamps.....and that can affect  how a square registers....

Used to be, on drawers, I would use an overlay style.   Ends and along the top edge had a rabbet, to cover the open....bottom never did.  Kind of hard to do through dovetails, though.  

Problems with tapered stock:   Even the sides for the door had a slight taper.....works IF they both taper the same direction, as you can put the "narrow end" at the back of the drawer.   BUT, if one taper is placed at the wrong end, throws things out of whack.  

I also tend to leave a gap all the way around a drawer...other than the bottom edge.    Ovoids "sticky" drawers....piston fit ones around here tend to "weld shut" when it gets real humid.  

As always, anyone is free to stop in, sometime, and help out.....I don't bite, really.    Shop is a bit crowded, but works for a single wood worker.    I can just about reach any tool, with a step or two.   Been known to send helpers home, after donating a tool or two to them.   Have a plane you are having trouble with?   Bring it along, and you take home a working plane.   The same one you brought.

[Handplanesandmore]

The biggest thing I am learning is get help,

It wasn't a coincidence that these people who built/build complex things had/have shop assistants: Sam Maloof, Tage Frid, David Savage, Michael Fortune, etc. Complex glue-ups are not a one-person job unless you want to risk a screw-up.

Simon