Stanley 45 or Veritas Combination Plane?

[Handplanesandmore]

The 45 won't do flutes. 

The Veritas plane accepts Record 405 and Stanley 45/55 blades. Get the Veritas fluting cutters, if the fluting cutters are compatible with the 45.

Simon

[adamcherubini]

Forgot flutes. On 18th century work, be it furniture or mantle pieces they might have used planes or maybe scratched in flutes. The trick with planing flutes is how you stop them. Sometimes there are separate end pieces, carved to match a planed flute.With something like a picture frame maybe you’d have to scratch and carve.

Here’s my advice. (This is another one that someone will put into their blog or magazine article). The great thing about hand tools is that you can use them to make anything. The problem with hand tools is that if you don’t know much about them, you just might try that. The tools are linked fairly closely to specific tasks in specific materials.

The Stanley #45 was made long after most of the cuts it could make were already being made by machines. I don’t think it ever was optimized for serious professional use. It’s good for a limited number of cuts in a limited number of materials for a short production run. Otherwise, you’d be better off finding the single purpose tool. Using the S#45 to do good woodwork is a little like starting a business as a tailor with the scissors in a Swiss Army knife. It’s not a terrible tool and can be handy when your only other alternative is a chisel.

[David Katz]

Forgot flutes. On 18th century work, be it furniture or mantle pieces they might have used planes or maybe scratched in flutes. The trick with planing flutes is how you stop them. Sometimes there are separate end pieces, carved to match a planed flute.With something like a picture frame maybe you’d have to scratch and carve.

Here’s my advice. (This is another one that someone will put into their blog or magazine article). The great thing about hand tools is that you can use them to make anything. The problem with hand tools is that if you don’t know much about them, you just might try that. The tools are linked fairly closely to specific tasks in specific materials.

The Stanley #45 was made long after most of the cuts it could make were already being made by machines. I don’t think it ever was optimized for serious professional use. It’s good for a limited number of cuts in a limited number of materials for a short production run. Otherwise, you’d be better off finding the single purpose tool. Using the S#45 to do good woodwork is a little like starting a business as a tailor with the scissors in a Swiss Army knife. It’s not a terrible tool and can be handy when your only other alternative is a chisel.

When making a piece of furniture, I'm one of those woodworkers who uses machines to dimension the lumber, but hand tools to do (most of) the joinery, decorative elements, surface prep, and the fit-and-finish. I know I can buy router bits to cut flutes, dadoes, etc., but I'd rather do them by hand using my collection of both vintage and modern hand tools. I have a Veritas plow plane, but use it primarily to cut the drawer bottom grooves. It is a beautiful little tool except that hand pressure won't keep the fence in place on the rods. I bought a set of beading blades for this plane, but the plow plane cannot accommodate larger beads.  I've been thinking about getting a combination plane for quite some time because of its versatility and its coolness factor, and the 45 is easily acquired with all cutters attachments for under $300 in almost mint condition. Even so, I am drawn to the new Veritas combination plane because of its beauty and fine craftsmanship.

I very much appreciate those who have contributed their opinions on this thread. Keep them coming if you're up for it.

Here is a demo, btw, of a fellow using a 45 to cut flutes:

Cuttings Flutes with a Stanley 45

[Handplanesandmore]

Combination planes and dedicated moulding planes have their place. Production woodworkers choose a jointer and a thickness planer over a combo jointer/planer for good reasons, and traditional molding woodworkers prefer molding planes (lots of them) for a similar reason. Unless a hobby woodworker has a lot of molding work to do, I would not recommend him or her keeping a large set of molding planes which will likely find itself sitting on the shelf collecting dust rather than getting used. 

Since the question is 45 vs Veritas rather than combination planes vs molding planes, let me limit my remarks to the original question for now.

If the intention is to cut "Primarily tongue-and-grooves with beads. I'd also like to do some fluting on moldings and picture frames," then yes, both the 45 (assuming the 45 is in good working condition) and Veritas Combination Plane will do a nice job and more -- reeding, for example.

My recommendation remains unchanged: Do you want to use the plane out-of-the-box (go Veritas), or do you prefer to spend time hunting down a good set or fixing one up before you can use it (take Highway 45)?

Simon

[adamcherubini]

Liked the video, but those flutes didn’t look good to me. Yes, it’s englush oak, but I expect better performance from a hand tool. Could be the lack of a sole that caused the surface roughness.

Also, the profile looks like crap. Maybe the cut was too deep? Maybe I’m being overly harsh.

The devil is really in the details. When I pick up a hand tool, I’m looking to expend my energy and be left with something awesome. I don’t think a 45 will produce awesome finished surfaces. Use it for joinery. A good wooden bead polishes/burnishes pine beautifully. And their quirks are tiny and beautiful.

I don’t see a lot of reeds that don’t stop and turn into flutes. No plane can do that.

Maybe mission style things would look ok with that sort of tool/profile.

[Handplanesandmore]

I don’t see a lot of reeds that don’t stop and turn into flutes. No plane can do that.

I agree that the work shown in the video is not top quality stuff, and I wouldn't plane the profile flat as he did either. But he was probably doing that for illustration (I have not seen his other works). Lee Valley does have a recent article on reeding on its website which I subscribe to, and the profile details shown are pretty crisp and fine.

Simon

[EricU]

I bought a 45 for a dedicated plow plane and need to finish cleaning and tuning it up.  Someone used my 55 enough that they wore out the rosewood fence, which is a lot of use.  I have never figured out what they were doing with it, none of the blades look particularly worn

[Bibliophile 13]

I’ve owned both the LV small plow and a #45. I eventually sold the #45 because I liked using the LV more. It’s better balanced and much more comfortable in the hand, which is important when doing very repetitive tasks like grooving.

That said, I’d agree with Adam. The LV can do tongue and groove with the right cutters, but it really is optimized for one job: plowing grooves. It does that really well. But if you’re wanting to do decorative work, you’re better off with dedicated tools designed for that purpose.

[David Katz]

I'm probably going to go with the Veritas combination plane. A 45 complete in "minty" condition sold for $510 on eBay this week. Most have been going for $275-$300. I suspect the prices are going up. Chris Gouchner used the Veritas in his latest video series on Fine Woodworking to make the crown molding for his project. The reeding blades are especially appealing.

[Handplanesandmore]

I’ve owned both the LV small plow and a #45. I eventually sold the #45 because I liked using the LV more. It’s better balanced and much more comfortable in the hand, which is important when doing very repetitive tasks like grooving.

That said, I’d agree with Adam. The LV can do tongue and groove with the right cutters, but it really is optimized for one job: plowing grooves. It does that really well. But if you’re wanting to do decorative work, you’re better off with dedicated tools designed for that purpose.

"The LV can do tongue and groove with the right cutters, but it really is optimized for one job: plowing grooves."


By that, you are referring to the Small Plow and not the Combination Plane, right? Because the Combination Plane does joinery as well as decorative work. The OP is interested in a 45 vs a Veritas Combination Plane, not the Plow.

Simon