New wood river 5 1/2 jack plane

[Handplanesandmore]

I'm afraid the comments about new chip breakers being perfect on purchase are completely untrue.



David

I don't think anyone here (unless I have missed it) has suggested perfection. Perfection is user dependent. A new plane can be used out of the box if it is properly produced. Is it perfect? You and I and any other seasoned users probably have different interpretations. But it is a minimum that one can use a new plane after honing the blade to produce good shavings (and surface) without tampering the new chip-breaker at all. Yes, you can improve anything in a new plane, but it is not the same you need to do that before a new plane can be used.

David Savage did an article a number of years ago, examining new planes like Clifton, Veritas, etc. His issue, if I remember it correctly, touched on "defects" but defective chip-breakers was not one of them. He expected a new plane would come with an operating chip-breaker.

Again, if you happen to know any modern plane makers that advise a customer to work on the new chip-breaker before he or she can use it, please share it.

Simon

[Admiral]

I'm afraid the comments about new chip breakers being perfect on purchase are completely untrue.

I have a much smaller control group than David (I've only bought a few bench planes new) but I can say that I've paid attention to each of the chipbreakers (LV and LN), principally because I tune so many vintage ones, and I am very picky about how the breaker and iron mate.  Nothing major needed to be done, just some light stone work to fine tune the mating.

[Strokes77]

This thread has taken a very weird twist...

The OP was not trying to mate the chip breaker...

He simply thought that the chipbreaker was the blade... and tried to sharpen it...

[Admiral]

Again, if you happen to know any modern plane makers that advise a customer to work on the new chip-breaker before he or she can use it, please share it.

Simon

In all fairness, I don't think David was talking about defects, but rather tuning for optimal use - as am I - and the point is that a new manufacture breaker is not perfect, and whether its utility can be improved by a knowledgeable user.  Will a manufacturer say that work is required, of course not, and that is really not a valid question in the context of the discussion.

[Handplanesandmore]

In all fairness, I don't think David was talking about defects, but rather tuning for optimal use - as am I - and the point is that a new manufacture breaker is not perfect, and whether its utility can be improved by a knowledgeable user.  Will a manufacturer say that work is required, of course not, and that is really not a valid question in the context of the discussion.

 
David is not talking about defects which are dealt with by QA as much as can be, he is conveying the message that something needs to be done about a chip-maker even if new because it is not perfect. He is in practice saying either by design or by insufficient QA or standards, new planes come with chip-breakers that need to be worked on. That is simply not true unless you go by his definition of “perfect.”  
 
Will a manufacturer say that work is required, of course not,. Why not? The new plane instructions I still have tell me work is needed to be done on the cutter, etc. Remember, a customer can and will complain about a product if the manufacturer fails to disclose what a customer needs to do to make the product workable. If I received a new handplane and shaving jammed at the chip-breaker, the fault lied with the vendor. Rob Cosman never touches the chip-breaker in any of the new Woodriver videos I have seen on youtube. He removes the oil, hones the blade (using David’s ruler trick), sets the chip-breaker, and produces good shavings. Perfect shavings? Any one of us can debate about it.
 
Simon

[Admiral]

Will a manufacturer say that work is required, of course not......

I'm glad we agree on that.

[Handplanesandmore]

I'm glad we agree on that.

I am just quoting you...and reject that in the next sentence. Don't tell me you ddin't know it!


Simon

[Handplanesandmore]

This thread has taken a very weird twist...

The OP was not trying to mate the chip breaker...

But some people seem to have suggested that indeed that was what he should be doing....critical, perfect!

I hope Rob Cosman is reading this and does a youtube video on "How to fine-tune your new WR3 chip-breaker to make your new plane work." (Every other new plane maker, of course, will be laughing to the bank if such a video is done.)

Simon

[David Charlesworth]

The faults which occur at the c/b front edge, do not generally exhibit themselves until the setting is close to the blade edge.  Choking is the usual problem, which occurs well before the ultra close setting of 4 to 8 thou of an inch.

If c/b is set back by a sixteenth of an inch it is not really doing anything, (in fine work).

Tuning a chip breaker/cap iron was a job that all craftsmen expected to do, in the same way that blades needed work to the back before sharpening.


This practice has not changed in the last hundred years, it is just that people don't get taught properly.


I can think of one good exception, Veritas lapped blades need no work on the back. 

David

[Handplanesandmore]

"These solid tools will give excellent results in the most demanding conditions. Precisely made, fit and finished, all Lie-Nielsen planes are ready for use right out of the box with minimal honing required."

I would be very very disappointed if I took these words from LN, and found that after spending a few hundred dollars on a new plane,  I had to work on the chip-breaker, in addition to honing the new blade. If I were a newbie, I probably would see if LN had any instructions on how to work on the new chip-breaker...there is none. I think I would just give them a call about a new malfunctioning chip-breaker or blade.

Simon