Woodworking in the woodworking forum

[chips ahoy]

Like Mac,I remember back to the days when there was no OT,turning or finishing,but there were a lot more mods.Seems like now we are down to about 3 mods.Back in the good old days we had a lot more mods,mainly because we needed mods to control some of the characters on Friday nights.Not going to mention any names.But we did have some real characters,who would get out of control.I do mostly turning,but read woodworking and OT as well.I stumbled upon woodnet by accident,I had a woodworking question and it was answered by Bob Z,so I have been hanging around ever since.


Mel

[Stwood_]

Lately it seems that off-topic discussions have made their way into the woodworking forum.

I haven't noticed hardly any. Maybe it's been moved/deleted??

[®smpr_fi_mac®]

Simon,

Okay.

I'm 43.

Moderation makes a difference. It means success or failure. You might not see that, but that really...doesn't make a difference.

No offense intended. Just facts presented.

[Redman]

I've been reading along here. As far as off topic threads in the woodworking area, seems to me much ado about nothing. Sometimes such threads can be fun and you would never see them or enjoy participating, and participation can be fun, if you don't visit the OT area. Lighten up.

[AHill]

Back in the day (a few years ago), there was some lively discussion and there were probably about 5 or 6 members of the forum who always ended up in different camps. On more than one thread, differences of opinions on tools or techniques or both got personal. The mods back then were a bit more free-handed to allow spirited discussion. Unfortunately, those disagreements migrated to personal attacks. Personal attacks drove several members away from the forum, and we lost a LOT of talent when that happened. The policing got better, and a couple of the offenders were banned, but that never resulted in the return of the likes of Bob Smalser, among others. In the early hand tool renaissance, somewhat coincident with Chris Schwarz's ascendance at Popular Woodworking Magazine, you had some heavy hitters in the hand tool world posting regularly on WoodNet. I remember long posts by Joel Moskowitz (Tools for Working Wood), Rob Lee (Lee Valley), Wibur Pan (Japanese tools), Stu Tierney (Schtoo - Tools from Japan), Rob Hanson (Evenfall), and Chris Schwarz even occasionally posting. It was an instructive and healthy education for me, fairly new into woodworking. The proliferation of YouTube videos, subscription woodworking sites, and an untold number of blogs, IMO, has been one very large factor in the decline of the forums. You get the meat of the content without having to cut away the fat.

I intentionally avoid the Off Topic Forum. I don't want to be biased about someone's woodworking knowledge by reading political views, dating habits, off-color jokes, etc.

[Bill Holt]

I lead a sheltered life.  WOODNET is my only media interest.  I too miss the "good old days" but am alarmed that Derek feels his build-a-long projects are not appreciated!  Like someone else suggested: I do not feel qualified to make an intelligent comment.

In the last few months Derek and Bandit have been the life blood IMHO.

Yes activity on WN is down, but when I have a question, WN is my go to place....and....you guys have never let me down.

To address the original post, I have not noticed anything that set off an alarm in my mind...but I am 74 and never was the brightest light on the Christmas tree.

[Derek Cohen]

Bill and others

First of all, thank you for the kind words. Always appreciated. I would hate that anyone misunderstood my post and interpreted as "my" posts are not appreciated. I am concerned that builds are not appreciated. It is was not simply the few responses to my threads (demonstrating tool use), but the relative lack of viewers compared to those about tools.

Adam made a point that magazines originated to aid in the purchase of tools. I don't know if I agree - look at the origins of FWW magazine. I believe what grabbed readers was that there was a magazine that showed building, per se, both of furniture and tools. Some of the most popular magazine are those with build-alongs and plans for projects. Norm Abrams was so popular because he demoed building with tools we could all afford, and then came in for criticism when his tools went higher end.

I believe people are interested in building. However they may not be here, or not be encouraged to be here. We need more to post their build ... and keep in mind that we all began at the beginning, so this is not a competition. The experienced offer advice. The newbies have eyes and can critique design.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tapper]

I posted my current build in the Hand Tool forum, and was wondering if it was in the wrong place as there were only two individuals who responded to it. At this stage it has had 399 views. Earlier, I had posted a video demonstrating the use of a fretsaw. Two responses and 453 views. By contrast, a question about blades for the same fretsaw shortly afterwards had 43 responses and 1800 views. It is evident to me that there is more interest in discussing tools than in discussing technique. 

This is a pattern that has been increasingly apparent over the past few years. The question is why? The answer seems to me to be that the expertise has left the building, and there are too few with enough experience and confidence to respond. I am not even sure if there is much interest in using the tooling, or learning how to use the tools. Just that there seems to be more interest in owning the tools. 

This is not a knock of members who prefer to collect tools - I recognise that there are many reasons for becoming (or calling oneself) a woodworker. My concern is that there are fewer and fewer discussions about design or crafting, and those members who seek this involvement will leave. I am undecided whether I will post the next episode of my build if there no one interested enough to critique it.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

I for one ALWAYS enjoy your posts and especially the pictures depicting techniques and/or the tools involved. I seldom visit the Hand Tools section because even though I do have hand tools, I'm primarily a power tool guy (thanks for the reminder about the HT section; I'll do better!).

I recently posted a thread in the Woodworking Tools section about a Walker Turner 16" bandsaw I finished restoring over the winter; lots of photos. I was surprised at how few responses it received. 

I visit this forum almost every day. Right now I only have shop projects going as I'm trying to finish up my shop area. Heretofore it's been mostly a "storage" area for my tools as I was working on a large addition/remodeling job on my home and didn't really have the time to build/organize the shop the way I wanted it. I also take a look at the OT section and post there. Like Mr. Brown I really do enjoy this forum. I love the format and have gotten to know several members here. I also think it's OK to let people speak their minds, within reason.

The only other WW forum I visit regularly is over at OWWM. A wealth of information over there about the old iron (I have a few pieces). On that forum absolutely no serious disputes or arguments are allowed. The owner doesn't allow it and is not timid about letting offenders know. They don't heed, they are gone.

And "yes" thanks to all who work here to keep this forum going. Anyone seen or heard from Terre Hooks lately?

Doug

[Handplanesandmore]

On that forum absolutely no serious disputes or arguments are allowed. The owner doesn't allow it and is not timid about letting offenders know. They don't heed, they are gone.

Doug

Never heard of that forum but it does sound like Sellers' blog where "arguments" with him are not allowed -- his team deletes follow-up posts that are considered rebuking his statements.

among the forums I visit, I only know of incidents in smc and woodcentral where people got booted out. The green koolid forum is the most lenient (accommodating) I know of in one instance of which a newbie and one of the moderators butted head until the newbie gave up and left the thread on his own.

Simon

[Greg Jones]

I posted my current build in the Hand Tool forum, and was wondering if it was in the wrong place as there were only two individuals who responded to it. At this stage it has had 399 views. Earlier, I had posted a video demonstrating the use of a fretsaw. Two responses and 453 views. By contrast, a question about blades for the same fretsaw shortly afterwards had 43 responses and 1800 views. It is evident to me that there is more interest in discussing tools than in discussing technique. 

This is a pattern that has been increasingly apparent over the past few years. The question is why? The answer seems to me to be that the expertise has left the building, and there are too few with enough experience and confidence to respond. I am not even sure if there is much interest in using the tooling, or learning how to use the tools. Just that there seems to be more interest in owning the tools. 

This is not a knock of members who prefer to collect tools - I recognise that there are many reasons for becoming (or calling oneself) a woodworker. My concern is that there are fewer and fewer discussions about design or crafting, and those members who seek this involvement will leave. I am undecided whether I will post the next episode of my build if there no one interested enough to critique it.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Just an observation, but the description for the Hand Tool forum starts with "Talk about hand tools..." so I would expect the discussions there be more about the tools, and their techniques (including your fretsaw discussion). Seems like the woodworking projects/build-a-longs/crafting/design discussions would belong in this forum? Power tool discussions in the power tools forum, home improvement projects in the home improvement forum, off-topic discussions in the off-topic forum, and so on?

What I see happening is that people become comfortable with others in the same forum, and discussions there tend to now include topics that, according to the descriptions for the forums here, would perhaps be more appropriate in a different forum. I know that has become especially the case for the hand tool forum, and I expect Cooler is seeing the same thing in this forum. It's not a problem for me as the traffic in all the forums is light enough that one can easily skip the off-topic stuff. The exception are the discussions that are, or become, political. I don't understand how people have the energy to engage in those discussions anywhere.