Review of the NE PLUS ULTRA dovetail saw mfg. by the Elysium Saw Works (Pete Taran)

[TraditionalToolworks]

One trick I've adopted from sharpening my chainsaw, is to place a wooden block on either side of the saw plate, a bit below the file, to help eyeball level for the file.

Tony,

Funny you should mention chainsaw sharpening. Yet another area people are in fear they will destroy the teeth on the saw. In reality it takes but a minute or two to touch the chain up and keep it sharp. When I sharpen my chainsaws in the shop, I just clamp the bar in a metalworking vise, but sometimes no so easy if you cut in the woods. I just take extra chains if I was to cut in the woods or similar.

EDIT: I clicked on your link to your website and see you work with powder metals. Several years ago when LV was first coming out with powder metal chisels, Rob sent me some tool bit blanks as I wanted to try that on the lathe. They use all CNC, but I wanted to use them on my manual lathe. One of the guys I sent a blank to was cutting on an old Monarch 10EE and the edge failed, it literally crumbled under extreme cutting conditions. It turned into a huge debate between the folks I had testing and one claimed I was wasting their time. That was the end of our testing...


Admiral,

That's a good article that Issac did. Hope he's doing well, haven't exchanged mail with him in quite some time. He's a good guy. I see the rakemaker on his site, but it reminds me of using a piece of wood. I'm not trying to be a smart @$$, but if anyone takes the time to get the feel for hand sharpening a saw, you can watch the file well enough, it's not that difficult. It is an area that people have a phobia against for some reason.

That said, I haven't picked up a saw file in 4 months.


Alan

[Tony Z]

Alan,

First, that website is OLD! Well over due to update, but one of those things that ain't high on my priority list!

With powder metals, compaction is important, but even more so is sintering. With conventional processing, the metals generally do not enter liquid state (conventional temps around 2100 degrees F). I just took delivery of a new furnace a few weeks ago, a high twmperature pusher style, that will permit us to go above 2400 degrees F, without blinking a eye.

With handsaw sharpening, I've used a Grizzly illuminated magnifier, but a few years ago moved to a magnifying headset. As my eyes age, I suppose its time to return to the Grizzly unit. For my chainsaw, I find I can get the chain sharper than new, rather easily.

[Derek Cohen]

Tony, get yourself a magnifier headset WITH a built-in light. Now THAT makes it a piece of cake!


Regards from Perth

Derek

[Admiral]

  For my chainsaw, I find I can get the chain sharper than new, rather easily.

Yeah, after sharpening handsaws, chainsaws are a piece of cake.  Yet look at all the jigs and grinders they sell for chainsaw sharpening.  The simple jig made of sheet metal from Tractor Supply is all you need (and the right sized file).  Was taking out a small tree and my neighbor was amazed at how fast my chainsaw cut. I asked him when was the last time you sharpened yours, he says he buy new chains.  I've found even the new chain I got with my saw that it was not really sharp.  A file is a wonderful thing....

[Philip1231]

OK: I have successfully sharpened my chainsaw many times: perhaps sharpening a DT saw is within reach?

Yeah, after sharpening handsaws, chainsaws are a piece of cake.  Yet look at all the jigs and grinders they sell for chainsaw sharpening.  The simple jig made of sheet metal from Tractor Supply is all you need (and the right sized file).  Was taking out a small tree and my neighbor was amazed at how fast my chainsaw cut. I asked him when was the last time you sharpened yours, he says he buy new chains.  I've found even the new chain I got with my saw that it was not really sharp.  A file is a wonderful thing....

[TraditionalToolworks]

permit us to go above 2400 degrees F, without blinking a eye.

I guess you can use that as a crucible, nice.

With handsaw sharpening, I've used a Grizzly illuminated magnifier, but a few years ago moved to a magnifying headset.  As my eyes age, I suppose its time to return to the Grizzly unit.  For my chainsaw, I find I can get the chain sharper than new, rather easily.

I use an OptiVisor with a 2.5 lens in it. But I feel the magnifier light is more convenient and doesn't bother people. The headset takes some getting used to.

Tony, get yourself a magnifier headset WITH a built-in light. Now THAT makes it a piece of cake!

I've never tried that myself, I should. I'll have to see, maybe OptiVisor makes one like that now. I'd like to get a more comfortable one if I upgrade, the OptiVisor can use some love in the comfort department.

OK: I have successfully sharpened my chainsaw many times: perhaps sharpening a DT saw is within reach?

Indeed you should. You have 3 saws, why not use the LN as a guinea pig? You could always replace that one easy if for any reason you can screw it up...even so, you can just joint it back down and start over if that was the case.

I don't agree about chainsaws being so much easier to sharpen, and here's why. The gullet on the chain is larger and curves around the file, so in order to take a smooth, clean cut on the tooth, there is more steel in contact between the file and tooth at any given time. That one aspect make it a tad more difficult to understand that in regard to fleam. After a few strokes of the file it doesn't matter much anyway, most get the hang of it. I like to do the same amount of strokes on each tooth, but that varies depending on if you joint or not.

The first thing I would do is to just get one good clean file stroke on each tooth. I like to skip a tooth and catch the unsharpened tooth on the other side. Some people do file every tooth and don't flip the saw, it all works. I like to file to music.

Can't ask for a better video than this one to give you a kick start on your LN saw!  


It was really TLN who took handsaws to the masses with this new design Pete Taran created. TLN's ability to supply to the masses was brilliant, because Pete's saws created this was that TLN was able to ride for a long time.



And lastly to play devil's advocate, not only Pete Taran and TLN, but Rob Lee also deserves some handsaw credits, their saws are not bad and innovate in a couple interesting ways.

Alan

[Admiral]

OK: I have successfully sharpened my chainsaw many times: perhaps sharpening a DT saw is within reach?

It surely is.  Whip up a saw vice, or just clamp between boards, get the right file, make some guide blocks per Taran's Primer, and give it a go.  You will be pleasantly surprised.

[Philip1231]

OK, you have talked me into it. I will report back at some point with results (good or bad).

[TraditionalToolworks]

OK, you have talked me into it.  I will report back at some point with results (good or bad).

Good, I'm glad to hear that.

A couple notes.

Never use a file without a handle. Even if it is a hunk of wood you drill a hole in, always have a handle on them.

And keep it simple. Don't get carried away and start buying a bunch of jigs and sets, just use a file and try to get the correct angle. For a rip saw you can just file perpendicular. Your LN dovetail saw is filed rip. One stroke on each tooth. Try to keep consistent pressure and speed. If you practice without any devices/accessories/jigs you will not need them.

For starting out on a dovetail saw I would recommend a 4-xx-slim, a handle, candle/sharpie to darken teeth and some type of magnification. The magnification is not needed, but I have a difficult time with anything about about 12 ppi myself, 15 ppi is almost impossible for me without magnification. I use a 2.5x Optivisor (lens #5). That's pretty comfortable when I sit down to file.

First, before you do anything, stand a board and take a couple cuts, just as you would when cutting a dovetail. Just get a feel for the saw how it is.

Again, just keep it simple, one clean stroke on each tooth. Just enough to to start cutting metal. Try to keep the flat of the file at the same angle as front of the tooth. Only cut on the push. Simply put, you'll be filing directly across the teeth, keeping the file on the angle of the tooth, and one stroke per tooth. Try to keep a rhythm going, maybe you have some music you like, get comfortable...good lighting, magnification. You can darken the teeth with soot from a candle if you prefer old school, or a sharpie if you go new school, both will work fine.

After you finish all of the teeth, take a few more cuts in the board again. Always test the saw after you file it. Sometimes you will file a saw and it may cut like $#!T, for whatever reason. Maybe the set is off, it pulls to one side, or maybe there isn't enough set and the kerf binds, etc...there are all things that will need to be taken care of, but IMO don't worry about them until you do this simple task to start with.

Anyway, that's my advice...keep it simple, get a feel for it, test your saw after you file it. Shampoo, rinse, repeat if you like. I would do that at least a few times, keeping note of how the saw cuts.

My last piece of free advice for you today is that you will realize at some point how ridiculous it is to be afraid of sharpening a saw, especially when you have 3 good quality saws. I look at it similar to sharpening a plane iron, chisel, slick, etc...it's a required maintenance for using the tool. If you do look at it as a required maintenance you will want to sharpen your saw before you use it, so that your tool will perform the best it can for you. There is nothing more painful than using a dull saw...but when a saw is cutting properly it's a pleasure to use.


I learned from the Tom Law video, it's a classic IMO. Even has John, err....I mean Jennie Alexander (R.I.P.) in it.


Cheers,
Alan - take everything I say with a 6-ton grain of salt, there are many approaches.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Philip,

No report back yet...have you tried to file a saw?

Alan