more on sharpening

[Stwood_]

Yea, pic fail........

[bandit571]

I stopped at 2,000 grit...

.

   
and...

   

[Rob Young]

I stopped at 2,000 grit...

.
and...

For shame! 

[Timberwolf]

For shame! 

....................
All it takes is more horsepower.....

[Scoony]

I started with the scary sharp, then water stones and ended up just using a medium India, and a hard Arkansas and get an edge that will pop off hairs without feeling the edge do it. I don't get that mirror polish that a 8000 grit will give, but it doesn't hinder actual work, or stabbing my fingers deeply.

Another test I found helpful was holding a piece of newspaper rather loosely, and making a slice with a blade. Clean cut through indicates a sharp blade.

I found out that if I don't check for flatness, I don't have to worry about flatness.

[bandit571]

Had to re-supply the sharpening stuff, today...

   
Also a "jug" of oil....and a wire brush to get into a few nooks & crannies..
 

   
Went up to 2K on a block plane's iron..

   
Just a Marsh plane...

   
That I had just finished rehabbing...

[Timberwolf]

Had to re-supply the sharpening stuff, today...


Also a "jug" of oil....and a wire brush to get into a few nooks & crannies..
 

Went up to 2K on a block plane's iron..


Just a Marsh plane...


That I had just finished rehabbing...

.............................
Marsh looks like it was made by Stanley...The major tool companies of the day would put anybody's name on their tools if you bought enough of them....Just like Swiss watches years ago...I remember when the gvt started requiring that the country of origin had to be stamped on imported goods like knives etc....The original requirement just said it had to be "stamped"...so at first the manufacturers just "stamped" them with ink.....which wore off quickly.....

[bandit571]

Apparently this was indeed made by Marsh.    Seems the patents for the Stanley versions had run out.....Marsh made their's well enough, that Stanley had to buy out Marsh, along with Ohio/Auburn tool co.

Marsh made a full line of Bench planes...from #3 size up to a #8.....
 

   

   

   

   

   

   
Seems to be a copy of the Stanley No. 9-1/2.

[Timberwolf]

Apparently this was indeed made by Marsh.    Seems the patents for the Stanley versions had run out.....Marsh made their's well enough, that Stanley had to buy out Marsh, along with Ohio/Auburn tool co.

Marsh made a full line of Bench planes...from #3 size up to a #8.....
 






Seems to be a copy of the Stanley No. 9-1/2.

.............................
Guess if it's good enough to copy....it's good enough...

[adamcherubini]

Hey all,

I don't need a discussion on how to sharpen or which method is best(I already bought them all).  I want to chat about what is good enough and feeling like you can never get there.

I own several sets of chisels.  Decent ones.  I realized a year ago that on one of them I only lapped about 1" of the back and that was making hard to clean up tenon faces due to the slight crank in the chisel.  So when my wife gave me a few Lie-nielson chisels I decided I was going to lap them "perfectly".  I was working on that this morning with my 300 diamond stone and just can't get it flat.  I mean flat over the most of the back.  There still remains a bit at the tip(the important part) that the stone has not touched.  I went to 80g on the worksharp(not convinced it can actually flatten) but didn't make much progress.

So the question comes down to is this.  I can sharpen a chisel sharpen enough to shave with.  I can trim the face of a tenon well enough for my skill level.  Should I be worried about this perfect amount of flatness?  Do you struggle with being confident that you know what you are doing is working and is "right".  Hoping to start some discussion on more than just equipment and tools but on knowing where to worry and fuss and where to just get back to work.

Thanks!

1) No woodworking edge tool needs a flat back to function. This is like sawing 6" off the ham before you cook it. Guys flatten backs to aid in sharpening. Some don't know why they do it (grandmother's ham story).
2) The wood doesn't care how flat your backs are. If you aren't shaving paper thin slices, it just sees a sharpened wedge, regardless of how you hold it. Most edge tools need "relief" so if you are paring, back down, that tool will tear or dive like a submarine. You'd actually be better off paring back down with a convex back.
3) Every machinist knows you can't make a surface flat by rubbing it on a flat surface. Doesn't work that way. differential pressure, the difference between the advancing side and the retreating side all basically result in us making our tools ever so slightly convex, even on a perfectly flat surface. We typically just work at a level that we don't know, can't measure or detect that we are out of flat.
4) The outer diameter of a worksharp wheel is travelling faster in surface feet per minute than the inner diameter. So you are right, you can't actually make anything flat on a worksharp or any other horizontal grinding wheel - only possibly flatter if you are careful. Machine shops use large diameter wheels called Blanchard Grinders. Typically the spm difference over the size of the tool is insignificant.

I asked Underhill if he ever flattened his whetstones and he made that face he makes like he had no idea what I was talking about. I think he hones the bevel, then just polishes off any wire burr and moves on.

What you want is smooth, consistently shaped (not ragged) with a controlled angle. Nothing else really matters. I test edges by attempting to slice through printer paper. If I can draw a tool across an edge and get a clean cut, that tool is probably sharp enough. If I can push the tool straight into the edge of the paper and have it cut, that's as sharp as I need it to be. I don't feel I get any extra performance or utility from honing beyond this point I will say, polished edges last longer than unpolished. Scratches are failure initiation sites.