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Watched a video by Steve Ramsey What is the rational behind this? where he's joining at a corner three pieces of wood. One of the pieces is end grain. The joint is glued and screwed so why the caution of only putting screws in the long grain? I realize the end grain does not hold as well but the joint is also being glued.
Jim
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12-23-2019, 08:30 AM
(This post was last modified: 12-23-2019, 08:41 AM by DaveR1.)
(12-23-2019, 07:48 AM)stoppy Wrote: Watched a video by Steve Ramsey What is the rational behind this? where he's joining at a corner three pieces of wood. One of the pieces is end grain. The joint is glued and screwed so why the caution of only putting screws in the long grain? I realize the end grain does not hold as well but the joint is also being glued.
Joints involving glued end grain don't tend to be very strong either. This is why you commonly see splined miter joints on boxes and picture frames and why it is uncommon to see drawer boxes with butt joints. Of course it depends on what the joint is for. One way to improve the strength of screws into end grain is to insert dowels through the adjacent face and run the screws through them.
FWIW, there's no prohibition on screws into end grain. You can do it. People do it all the time. Just understand that the screws don't has as much holding power as they do in face grain applications.
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Unless you have a slightly oversized pilot hole for the screw it is very easy to split the end grain when the screw enters the hole. Even so, an easily split wood like cedar might split when a screw is driven into the end grain.
A solution I have found and use (mostly for MDF), is to use an oversized pilot hole which is just tight enough to drive the screw. I then apply slow drying epoxy to the threads and screw it in. The slow drying epoxy will soak into the adjoining wood/MDF for a good bond. Fast drying epoxy will harden before it can soak in.
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12-23-2019, 09:08 AM
(This post was last modified: 12-23-2019, 10:07 AM by Ohio Mike.)
(12-23-2019, 08:30 AM)DaveR1 Wrote: FWIW, there's no prohibition on screws into end grain. You can do it. People do it all the time. Just understand that the screws don't has as much holding power as they do in face grain applications.
^^^^ This
And also there is a greater chance of splitting the board.
Mike
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The thing about drilling an appropriate pilot hole is important and I should have mentioned it before. Remember that a screw is basically a wedge. Drilling a pilot hole at least as large as the body of the screw can prevent it from wedging the fibers apart as it is driven.
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(12-23-2019, 09:30 AM)DaveR1 Wrote: The thing about drilling an appropriate pilot hole is important and I should have mentioned it before. Remember that a screw is basically a wedge. Drilling a pilot hole at least as large as the body of the screw can prevent it from wedging the fibers apart as it is driven.
I drive screws into the end grain of 2 x 4s all the time. The pine seems to take the screw without splitting even without pilot holes as long as I don't screw in too close to the edge.
But I would not try that with cedar or red oak. Cedar especially will split easily.
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I left out in my description that pilot holes for all screws is recommended. I should have mentioned I am making this small table that is designed for yard use as Christmas present for my wife who does a lot of flower gardening. I’m hoping she’ll set it next to her favorite chair when she takes a break in her yard work. I have two screws in the long grain board sides now and thought one in the end grain would give some additional support.
Jim
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Here's the deal. If a screw is used in end grain, the sharp threads are severing the wood fibers, which run parallel to the screw axis, as they enter the end grain. There's not a lot of unsevered fibers gripping the screw after installation. So it's easier to pull the screw out. Compare that to face grain, where the wood fibers are laying across the threads, preventing easy pullout. Installed in face grain, the threads aren't cutting all the fibers that lay across the screw.
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Allan Hill
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If I need it to be strong, I do what DaveR1 said or I glue and screw in a corner brace if the work allows.
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Avoid any design which calls for screws threading into end grain.
Wood is good.
