Why a prohibition attaching screws into endgrain?

[Cooler]

If I need it to be strong I would through dowel it.  It is fast and easy and very strong.  Just drill the holes through the two pieces of wood being fastened, add glue and tap in the dowel.  Trim after it dries.

[Alan S]

Screws into endgrain have about half as much pullout strength as the same length of screw into sidegrain of the same type of wood.  But when the endgrain connection fails, it tends to go all at once, rather than giving you warning by loosening up a bit first.  If you simply double the length of screw into endgrain, the increased length will not contribute to moisture cycling damage as it could into sidegrain as there is next to no expansion and contraction along the grain.

[KLaz]

As most mentioned, proper sized pilot hole is key.

Every project is different and joinery methods need to be evaluated for the use is intended for.

I just finished putting together this mirror last night and the stretcher between the feet is glued and screws into the end grain.  I felt for this application this was a perfectly suited way to handle this.  

   

[fredhargis]

As most mentioned, proper sized pilot hole is key.

Every project is different and joinery methods need to be evaluated for the use is intended for.

I just finished putting together this mirror last night and the stretcher between the feet is glued and screws into the end grain.  I felt for this application this was a perfectly suited way to handle this.  

That mirror frame is very nice...would love to see a pic after it's finished.

[Willyou]

I am usually careful not to drill oversize pilot holes, particularly in end grain. The screw gets a reduced bite in the end grain as it is. I try to make my pilot holes equal to the diameter of the screw minus the depth of the threads. If I anticipate splitting, I will put clamp pressure on both sides perpendicular to the grain at the point where the screw is placed. Then drive the screw. I usually will leave the clamp in place for a while to let the wood take the shape of the screw. Adding glue and dowels are good techniques as well.

[KLaz]

That mirror frame is very nice...would love to see a pic after it's finished.

Thanks Fred!

Will start finishing it right after Christmas so look out for pics next week..

[Arlin Eastman]

Watched a video by Steve Ramsey What is the rational behind this? where he's joining at a corner three pieces of wood. One of the pieces is end grain. The joint is glued and screwed so why the caution of only putting screws in the long grain? I realize the end grain does not hold as well but the joint is also being glued.

I heard that along time ago when I started here in holding wood via faceplate.  Seeing your post made me think of expansion and contraction of end grain and it is trying to force the glue to hold against that and at some point it will fail over how many years.

I did not hear that point just thought of it.

[tablesawtom]

I heard that along time ago when I started here in holding wood via faceplate.  Seeing your post made me think of expansion and contraction of end grain and it is trying to force the glue to hold against that and at some point it will fail over how many years.

I did not hear that point just thought of it.

The mirror is beautiful and I am sure she will love it. The problem with a lot of woodworkers is they want a lot of tools but never get anything out of the shop. If you build, things is a poor word, for her and get them out of the shop, SHE will find the money for what ever you want and all you will have to do is casually mention the need.

Now about the post. If I were building this piece I would have drilled a hole from the bottom of the stretcher up into it so it wouldn't be seen and put a dowel in it. That way when the screw goes in, it goes into the long grain of the dowel as well as end grain. That way no glue is needed and the whole frame can come apart, making moving it  during a move very easy with every thing flat no chance of something getting broken. I would put the dowel in before the piece was sculptured.

The dowels make finishing very easy and with no finish build up in the corners, It can be assembled after finish dries. One would never have to contend with finish lines bleeding through.

[Cooler]

As most mentioned, proper sized pilot hole is key.

Every project is different and joinery methods need to be evaluated for the use is intended for.

I just finished putting together this mirror last night and the stretcher between the feet is glued and screws into the end grain.  I felt for this application this was a perfectly suited way to handle this.  

I would have glued and screwed it as you had, but after the glue had dried I would back out the screws and replaced them with dowels.  I think that the dowels make a stronger joint.

It takes almost no time to do  this.  I would back out one screw on each side and replace it with a dowel.  A few hours later I would repeat the process with the second set of screws. 

Then trim and sand. 

Quick and easy.  The screws acting as clamps in that case and not as fasteners.