1/8" Chisel

[gov.cheese]

Thanks Simon. The carcase is Hard Maple. The drawer sides are Tasmanian Oak (which is a eucalyptus, but looks and works like quarter sawn White Oak); the fronts are Black Walnut, Jarrah, and a curly Hard Maple. 

The write up is here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/H...tures.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

You are a true inspiration, Derek.

[wmickley]

I am thinking about taking a woodworking class that requires a 1/8" chisel as part of the tools I am supposed to bring. I currently have vintage Stanley 750 & #60 chisels. What do you suggest for a chisel for this dovetailing class? I don't want to spend more on this one plane than I have for the dozen or so vintage chisels. Thanks.

I think you should get the Narex 1/8 chisel, which is around $15, might be cheaper unhandled.

I don't think the 1/8 chisel is on the list so that you can make skinny dovetails. One thing we do use this type of chisel for is cleaning out the corners of half blind dovetails, so even if that is not what is on the agenda, it would be useful later on.

I looked at a video of Rob Cosman explaining the tools needed for his dovetail class. Half the things were tools I do not have, even though I have been making dovetails quite a bit longer than Cosman. If you watched the video and then bought the needed tools from his website, you would be out $1300. So if the only questionable tool you have to buy is the 1/8 chisel, maybe you should see it as a small concession to the workshop teacher.

[Derek Cohen]

One chisel I did take away from Rob Cosman many years ago was the use of a fishtail for half blind sockets. Yes, one could use a 1/8", but really this is an unsafe/borderline strategy when making "London" (pointed) tails. The corners become too vulnerable to be fractured as a 1/8" cuts more by digging out waste than slicing it. No doubt one can get away without one, but once used, I think most would agree that it is very helpful.

[

This is a fishtail I made from a pre-production 1/4" O1 Veritas chisel ...



If one is going to include a 1/8" on a modern dovetailing course, I imagine that a small fishtail chisel should also be included.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[wmickley]

The use of a fishtail chisel for half blind dovetails is a recent development for amateurs. Traditional use is a small chisel for the corners. Of course we don't use it in the way you describe.

The Seaton Chest was made in 1797 with tools purchased the previous year. In the original inventory of the tools, there are 34 chisels, six of which are smaller than 1/4 inch wide. It was not a cheap set of tools, but of course there was not a "fishtail chisel". There were also eight mortise chisels and four socket chisels. 

The chest itself has about a dozen small drawers, each with delicate half blind dovetails. Seaton was not having any trouble doing fine work.

I don't know who is teaching the course in question, or why they are using a 1/8 chisel. However I think it is to the teacher's credit if that is the only tool which does not have an obvious use.

[Derek Cohen]

I am curious, Warren ... are there any hand tools that were designed and developed after the Seaton Chest years that have value in your opinion?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[bandit571]

Those very skinny pins...have a bad history of just crumbling over time.....as in snapping off at the narrowest points....leaving the "half pins" to hold things together...

Oh, they are quite fine, if you are just showing off......

[Handplanesandmore]

I looked at a video of Rob Cosman explaining the tools needed for his dovetail class. Half the things were tools I do not have, even though I have been making dovetails quite a bit longer than Cosman. If you watched the video and then bought the needed tools from his website, you would be out $1300. So if the only questionable tool you have to buy is the 1/8 chisel, maybe you should see it as a small concession to the workshop teacher.

Cosman isn't alone as many other schools include tool lists for their workshops that can easily set one back by the hundreds, not counting the costs of transport, accommodation and course fee. Perhaps, some of them target their classes at those who already have owned most of the tools, and not beginners.

A beginner should hold on making any big ticket purchase, and ask the school if there is any tool available on loan. It's far better to buy something after you try it. Of course, a 1/8" chisel ($10 if one doesn't mind a plastic handle or $15 as you suggested) is a not concern. But not handsaws.

Many dovetail classes have both rip and crosscut saws on their lists. Most of us who have done the joint long enough can finish dovetails with just a rip saw (if you can't, you aren't long enough in my book). Given the small amount of crosscuts in a dovetail joint, the crosscut saw is not essential per se (another $150 to $200 saved, depending on what brand you are after). So not everything on any suggested lists is needed. 

Simon

[Timberwolf]

One chisel I did take away from Rob Cosman many years ago was the use of a fishtail for half blind sockets. Yes, one could use a 1/8", but really this is an unsafe/borderline strategy when making "London" (pointed) tails. The corners become too vulnerable to be fractured as a 1/8" cuts more by digging out waste than slicing it. No doubt one can get away without one, but once used, I think most would agree that it is very helpful.

[

This is a fishtail I made from a pre-production 1/4" O1 Veritas chisel ...



If one is going to include a 1/8" on a modern dovetailing course, I imagine that a small fishtail chisel should also be included.

Regards from Perth

Derek

........................
If one is going to include a 1/8" on a modern dovetailing course, I imagine that a small fishtail chisel should also be included.

I guess I fall into the category of a person not wishing to "leave well enough alone", but an old screwdriver can be easily made into a little fishtail gouge or flat chisel using a propane or Mapp torch, an improvised anvil and a hammer...Forge to the shape you want, then file or grind the way you want it, quench in any type of oil, then sharpen it...Tempering it may not even be necessary...For me, making or improving a tool is just as much fun as using one.......

[bandit571]

Well, we'll give them skinny pins a try-out...
 

   
And..put an old Harbor Freight chisel to work...

   
Cleaning out tails....
At least the tails will cover the groove for the bottom...

   

[wmickley]

I am curious, Warren ... are there any hand tools that were designed and developed after the Seaton Chest years that have value in your opinion?

The trouble is that craftsmanship waned during the 19th century and for most of the 20th century. So tools were often developed for lesser craftsmen. Unless the tool maker understands how a tool is supposed to work, things are likely to go downhill. 

One example where tools improved is measuring: rules dividers and such seemingly improved over the 19th century. And chisels may have improved because in the 18th century they had trouble welding their best steel (so-called cast steel) to wrought iron. Chisels from the 1830s are very nice, maybe better than the 1790s. 

Today's plane makers are often hampered by ignorance of 18th century technology.