Whch Upgrade Makes Sense?

[mike4244]

I can not find any fault in what Lumber Yard said. He stated that (  I won't ever go back to straight knives). And given the fact with my experience with inserted cutters in metal and the fact that I am more than happy to go from a planner surface to sand paper  I, will at this time, never consider switching to an inserted cutter head. Who is right? We are.

Being on a fixed income changes the way a person looks at it. I sharpen my own knives so I didn't think in those realms. With me like I said I would keep the dewalt because I am used to working with it and i presume paid for so it costs nothing to keep it, granted a few repair parts. I have two planners so changing the blades in the big one doesn't come into play as often as only one planner would. It is much like using a #6 to do most of the grunt work and having a super sharp #7 hand plane only for the final few strokes. The 7 wouldn't have to bee sharpened as often. 

I read that Lumber Yard up graded his 8 inch jointer and I can not fault him doing that. I also have an eight jointer with no jacking screws and changing blades rates right up there with getting a root canal.  But there are those who would argue that a person should have the same size jointer as planner. And if that logic is correct then why upgrade cutter heads? Why not just get a larger jointer with a spiral cutter head?  I also read in more that one post about a 20 inch planner versus a 15 and if bigger is better then will a 20 inch be big enough.

In keeping with the original post topic the person who posted it is pondering the question of how to proceed,  really needs to consider his situation as far as funds available, space available and what type of projects he or she likes to work on, Family needs and so on. And what he is willing to live with.

Is there anything wrong with inserted cutter heads? No.  That is as far as if you can afford it and if you can afford it and want to buy it great for you. And I have to agree that a bigger planner over an old bench top with a spiral head is a no brainer.  But in the end Cams2705, the buck rests on your shoulder and I would go with what you gut feeling is on this one.

Tom

Tom, regarding your root canal, I have a method I have used for 50+ years that always works.
Remove the blades, clean the slot in the cutter head.  Install one new blade ,only snug the screws. Remove or tie back the guard. Place a piece of plate glass over the outfeed table extending a bit past center. I use a jalousie window glass, you might need two or a wider glass as my jointer is 6". Now place a magnet over the glass and centered on the cutter head. The blade will hit the underside of the glass and you will hear a " click". If you did not have the blade pull up then loosen the lock screws some more. 
Now rock the cutter head a bit to and fro til the bevel is dead flat on the glass. Snug the lock screws, check the blade and  finish tightening the lock screws. Repeat for the other knives. You can test with a stick , I don't bother with the test as I have changed knives 3/4 times a year for about 35 years and maybe every other year since I retired. I never had to repeat the knife change using the stick method to check. My magnet has a 50lb. pull, Probably over kill but I already had it.
mike

[Tapper]

I suspect that whether or not a spiral cutterhead makes sense depends what kind of wood you're planing. I work with mostly straight grained domestics and see very little tear out with straight knives. I don't find changing knives to be that big a deal, maybe if I used it more or planed abrasive woods - teak for example - I might feel differently. If I worked a lot with figured woods I probably would feel differently. As with most questions there's no one size fits all answer.

Not to be a contrarian, but it really doesn't. I'm working on a long project right now and have jointed and planed everything from pine, poplar and fir, to QSWO. I am thankful for the carbide spiral cutterheads in both my jointer and planer every time I hit the switch on them. No knives to sharpen or set is a time saver and the avoidance of having to reset knives keeps my blood pressure down.

FWIW, I kept my Ridgid 13" planer to use for extremely rough lumber, which comes along occasionally. The knives on it are two sided and self setting. Again, I would never go back to those tools with straight knives. If you are on a budget I completely understand. It's better to have the larger capacity equipment with straight knives and consider upgrading later when your tool budget grows a little.

To the OP: What did you decide on?

Doug

[cams2705]

Not to be a contrarian, but it really doesn't. I'm working on a long project right now and have jointed and planed everything from pine, poplar and fir, to QSWO. I am thankful for the carbide spiral cutterheads in both my jointer and planer every time I hit the switch on them. No knives to sharpen or set is a time saver and the avoidance of having to reset knives keeps my blood pressure down.

FWIW, I kept my Ridgid 13" planer to use for extremely rough lumber, which comes along occasionally. The knives on it are two sided and self setting. Again, I would never go back to those tools with straight knives. If you are on a budget I completely understand. It's better to have the larger capacity equipment with straight knives and consider upgrading later when your tool budget grows a little.

To the OP: What did you decide on?

Doug

Nothing final yet ... still torn bbetween either the JET or Griz 15" models

[Arlin Eastman]

Grizzly only has a 1 year warrantee but do not know what Jet has.  I have had a few issues with a bandsaw and Grizzly's service was very good and helpful.

[Tapper]

Nothing final yet ... still torn bbetween either the JET or Griz 15" models

My guess is that either will serve you well. Both my 8" jointer and 15" planer are ShopFox made by Grizzly. Both have performed admirably over many years. 

On another note, I have a Performax drum sander that I needed some CS help with recently. Jet bought Performax a few years ago so I called their Tech Support line. I had accidentally busted off the switch on the unit while moving it. Got the new switch and was having a difficult time hooking up the six wires to it. The Tech Support guy I talked to could not have been more helpful, courteous or competent. 

Good luck in whatever you decide!

Doug

[KLaz]

15% off right now on Powermatic and 10% on Jet.

Spring for the PM with spiral head and never look back!

[cams2705]

15% off right now on Powermatic and 10% on Jet.

Spring for the PM with spiral head and never look back!

I just pulled the string on the Powermatic 15HH - helical head.  The 15% off equated to $480.

I added a Grizzly G1021X2 (a clone of the 15HH) to the cart four times over and just before clicking the button to complete the order, I removed it.  For reference, the Grizzly was on sale for $1845 .. 10% off of the $2050 retail price.

What was behind my decision:
 - Even though the machines are clones most likely made in the same factory, I felt I was getting a machine that was better QA-ed in the end since PM has a 5 yr. vs. a Grizzly 1 yr. warranty;
 - Integrated wheels in the PM save me ~$100+ from not having to buy a mobile cart;
 - Grizzly added $175 shipping ... which is actually $209 since they add $34 liftgate fee;
 - The PM comes with 74 carbide inserts on the cutterhead vs. the Grizzly which only has 52 ... I equate this to more cuts across the board and a smoother finish;
 - It comes with a true Byrd Shelix cutterhead as opposed to a clone.  Even though Grizzly says they're the same size cutter inserts as the PM/Byrd (15mm X 15 mm X 2.5mm), I couldn't find anything definitive that the Grizzly inserts have the same exact geometry.  There was one post on Reddit where a guy compares and said they were so close you would need calipers to find the difference, but that still tells me they're not the same;
 - It comes with a sleeve of 10 replacement inserts which retail for $60 ... but since they're real Byrd cutters, they're all a single standard size and can be found on other sites for $35.  Grizzly has a page that compares all they're different cutters for whichever machine that would make your head spin.  I feel the Byrd cutters are a standard in the industry and will be available well into the future ... I didn't get that feeling with Grizzly;
 - Based on the previous bullet, and not feeling comfortable I could get a set of inserts 8+ years from now, I would have to factor in buying another full set of inserts (52) from Grizzly ... 6 sleeves at $60 each = $360.

Once I compared the bottom line on the two.  The $1845 Grizzly + $100 mobile cart + $209 shipping + $360 for inserts = $2514 ... vs. $2719 for the Powermatic.  It was a no-brainer to go for the Powermatic for only $200 more which had free shipping.

I left tax out of the equation as I would have had to pay it on both anyway.  I bought through The Tool Nut.  There were two other retailers that wouldn't charge me tax, Acme Tools and Northern Tool, but decided against them.  I bought through both in the past.  Acme requires your credit card info to be saved to your profile had their site hacked in the past leading to my credit card info to be compromised.  Northern tool offered free shipping, but basically said unless you were a commercial address, they wouldn't guarantee the shipping company would deliver it so don't even bother placing your order.  I've had semi-trucks with liftgate deliver to my house before, but I'm guessing they cheap out on their choice of shippers and once they have your money, too bad for you.

And just for reference, I have a Dewalt 733 that I had for some time.  If I would but a Byrd Shelix head for that one, it is also in nee of some refurbishment in addition to the cost of the Byrd based on its age to include new rollers, bearings, belt , and brushes equating to almost $700 not including tax and shipping.  I think this was twice the price of the planer to begin with.  I'm still going to keep it just to premill really rough or questionable woods.

[R Clark]

Thanks for updating and outlining your thought process.  I found that interesting.

[Tapper]

Glad you got what you wanted - enjoy!

Doug

[fredhargis]

You will be quite happy with the machine, congrats!