Drawer Box Construction

[FS7]

I am *almost* done with a buffet/wine rack/cabinet/sideboard thing. I'll post pictures when I'm done. It should have been done, but instead of subtracting a full inch for the drawer slides (1/2" on each side) I subtracted 1/2". I'll add the drawer box to my stack of oversized drawer boxes.

The first drawer box was done with hidden loose tenons. Looks clean, I suppose, as the ends were plugged with similar material I cut on the bandsaw. The other side would've been hidden with the drawer front.

The second one I just clamped and screwed together, adding contrasting dowels to the holes. Three screws per side (4 3/8" height with a 1/2" dado bottom) so I'm sure it will be able to handle ten times what it will ever see. My question is what exactly is the point of overdoing drawer boxes?

The first piece of furniture I ever made with drawers was a computer desk. I still use it when I work from home and the drawers were nothing more than cheap 1x Home Depot pine finish nailed together. Just butt joints, no glue, no nothing. Bottoms were MDF. They have been fine for 12 years. I've made loose tenon drawers, drawer lock drawers, dovetail drawers, pocket-screwed drawers, and doweled drawers. I can't for the life of me figure out any real difference in one or the other. I have been told over and over by people who kinda sorta know a little about woodworking that dovetailed drawers are the hallmark of quality. I have them in my home and the quality is garbage. 

Years and years ago I remember a thread of people arguing about drawers, with somebody mentioning that their dovetail drawers were great. The marking knife had left deep gouges on the drawer box (well beyond what was needed for cutting) and I could not for the life of me figure out why this was good. Of all the things to spend time on, why are drawer boxes over-engineered when alternative methods are quite strong and don't take nearly as long?

[barryvabeach]

I have some cheap furniture, and when the drawers are loaded, and just slide in the frame,  meaning without drawer slides, the drawer front does separate from the side over time,  especially when it was just nailed or stapled to the sides.

[DaveR1]

I have been told over and over by people who kinda sorta know a little about woodworking that dovetailed drawers are the hallmark of quality. I have them in my home and the quality is garbage. 

Years and years ago I remember a thread of people arguing about drawers, with somebody mentioning that their dovetail drawers were great. The marking knife had left deep gouges on the drawer box (well beyond what was needed for cutting) and I could not for the life of me figure out why this was good. Of all the things to spend time on, why are drawer boxes over-engineered when alternative methods are quite strong and don't take nearly as long?

Years ago before adhesives were as good as they are today dovetail joints were important because the provide a great deal of the strength in a joint (at least in one direction) so they keep the drawer front from being pulled off a heavy drawer. They take skill to cut accurately and cleanly be hand. It would be expected that a woodworker who could make nice dovetails was also skilled in the rest of the furniture making process and would produce high quality pieces.

That idea of equating dovetailed drawers with quality has never disappeared even though the dovetails are more often cut with a machine. I was in a custom kitchen cabinet shop a few months ago and the salesman pulled out a drawer to show me that their cabinets were very high quality because they have dovetailed drawers. The dovetails were the typical obese zipper tooth style and for machine dovetails the fit wasn't very good. I told him he should probably look for a different drawer to pull out when he tries that line on other customers.


As you rightly point out, there are other ways to join drawer boxes that are as strong as dovetails. Most of those ways are less fussy to cut and faster. If dovetails are to be used, they ought to be beautiful to look at. Still many people who aren't woodworkers will still look at dovetails as a mark of quality even if they aren't nice dovetails.

[mound]

but instead of subtracting a full inch for the drawer slides (1/2" on each side) I subtracted 1/2". I'll add the drawer box to my stack of oversized drawer boxes.

I made this mistake on a recent project, though I wasn't a full 1/2" off, more like 1/16" but the solution was to route a dado on the inside of the cabinet (or the side of the drawer, your choice) to inset the slide. This will work for you too if you don't feel like re-making the drawer boxes. 

To the dovetail/quality thing, I think the "hallmark of craftsmanship" is true for the craftsman, and the few who understand it. It's about the time/effort/precision/skill in pulling off a beautiful dovetail because of how it looks and the sense of satisfaction you get doing it by hand.. To me at least. This is also why I haven't gone the router-jig route for making them.  Agreed there are plenty of other ways to make an equally strong box and I have some low-end factory furniture where drawers are machine cut dovetails that have fallen apart.

[jteneyck]

Not much to add other than I try to use drawer construction that's appropriate for the piece.  I really like finger jointed drawer construction, especially when I'm building the boxes with Baltic birch plywood, and I like how that combination looks with a modern design cabinet.  But I wouldn't use either for a more traditional piece.  That's where I'd use real wood boxes with dovetailed construction, or 5 piece construction.  As you pointed out, almost any construction is strong enough, especially if it's glued.  I  built my kitchen cabinet drawers out of 5/8" Melamine with biscuit joints to hold the boxes together.  Some of them hold up to 100 lbs of stuff.  Not one has failed in almost 25 years.  It's more about the aesthetics to me as to what type of construction I choose.  

John

[FS7]

Not much to add other than I try to use drawer construction that's appropriate for the piece.  I really like finger jointed drawer construction, especially when I'm building the boxes with Baltic birch plywood, and I like how that combination looks with a modern design cabinet.  But I wouldn't use either for a more traditional piece.  That's where I'd use real wood boxes with dovetailed construction, or 5 piece construction.  As you pointed out, almost any construction is strong enough, especially if it's glued.  I  built my kitchen cabinet drawers out of 5/8" Melamine with biscuit joints to hold the boxes together.  Some of them hold up to 100 lbs of stuff.  Not one has failed in almost 25 years.  It's more about the aesthetics to me as to what type of construction I choose.  

John

I think for me it's a matter of time as much as anything. I'm a computer scientist that does cybersecurity architecture, so it is no longer possible for my brain to do anything other than extensive cost/benefit analysis on pretty much everything. With two young kids my shop time is pretty limited, so I want to do something simple and strong where things aren't seen (such as the drawer boxes). I no longer have the time to do dovetails or box joints, though they look nice (especially with solid wood). I've never even tried hand-cut dovetails, though maybe I will when I'm retired.

I think modern ball-bearing drawer slides make it possible for a lot less bulk in drawers since they take very little force to open. My old desk has the drawers inside a cabinet (open the door, then the drawers sit in there with a round hole to pull them open) and even those extremely basic finish-nailed drawers with regular wheel slides are pretty smooth. My wife has older furniture with wooden slides, and those I could see putting a lot more stress on the drawer front as they require more than a little care and feeding to keep smooth.

[Cooler]

When I am working in a hurry I will first assemble the drawer with butt joints and cabinet screws and glue.

After the glue dries I remove the screws and through drill for dowels.  The dowels will be stronger than screws that have been plugged.  Depending upon the height of the drawer, 2 to four dowels per side.

You want to leave at least 1" of material on either side of the dowels.   For larger boxes it is best to leave 2" from the corners. 

In any event, this method is just as fast as screwing then plugging and will result in a stronger box.

[jteneyck]

I think for me it's a matter of time as much as anything. I'm a computer scientist that does cybersecurity architecture, so it is no longer possible for my brain to do anything other than extensive cost/benefit analysis on pretty much everything. With two young kids my shop time is pretty limited, so I want to do something simple and strong where things aren't seen (such as the drawer boxes). I no longer have the time to do dovetails or box joints, though they look nice (especially with solid wood). I've never even tried hand-cut dovetails, though maybe I will when I'm retired.

I think modern ball-bearing drawer slides make it possible for a lot less bulk in drawers since they take very little force to open. My old desk has the drawers inside a cabinet (open the door, then the drawers sit in there with a round hole to pull them open) and even those extremely basic finish-nailed drawers with regular wheel slides are pretty smooth. My wife has older furniture with wooden slides, and those I could see putting a lot more stress on the drawer front as they require more than a little care and feeding to keep smooth.

In that case I don't think you can do better than butt joints with brads or staples.  One step up would be butt joints and pocket hole screws.  

John

[Alan S]

When people talk about fine craftsmanship, they are frequently referring to top quality pieces expected to last for centuries.  Some things nailed together have lasted, but things like dovetails that are strong, yet when they do fail do so in a way that is easily repaired, tend to last longer.  Some of the other approaches are problematic when considered in that light, and/or have not been around long enough to tell whether they will last.

The way I look at it is that all furniture need not be fine in that sense, but traditional methods are good to know. 

By the way, modern glues are more convenient and can glue more materials in more situations, but for gluing well-fitting wood to wood joints, old fashioned hide glue is not second rate.  It holds well for a long time, and is easily repaired if necessary.

Questions like whether one should leave the scribe line or make very narrow pins are simply taste. Make what appeals to you, including stapled drawers. The biggest feature of hand-made furniture in my mind is that you can make exactly what you want.

[FS7]

When I am working in a hurry I will first assemble the drawer with butt joints and cabinet screws and glue.

After the glue dries I remove the screws and through drill for dowels.  The dowels will be stronger than screws that have been plugged.  Depending upon the height of the drawer, 2 to four dowels per side.

You want to leave at least 1" of material on either side of the dowels.   For larger boxes it is best to leave 2" from the corners. 

In any event, this method is just as fast as screwing then plugging and will result in a stronger box.

Interesting idea. I had thought about this, but as an initial construction idea. Mine look like this, but the dowels are only glued to the counterbore and sanded flush while the screws do the holding.

Do you use a hand drill or some sort of jig to drill for the dowels? I am not sure I could drill a straight enough hole for that.