Kitchen cabinet finish questions, cases built with pre finished 3/4" Plywood UV 40% gloss I will be finishing doors and drawers 1/4" maple veneer ply and flame maple frames I have finished one drawer front with blonde shellac two coats. and plan to recoat with poly semi gloss I believe I'm correct in believing the shellac can be coated with poly. does that also apply to water base or oil base poly or should I be thinking lacquer. Dry time on oil base poly is a concern I plan to spray both shellac and top coats with a LVLP gun. looking for recommendations. The shellac adds enough amber that it matches the pre finished ply quite well, and pops the grain on the flame maple frames.
thanks
Tim
If the shellac is dewaxed you shouldn't have any problems with either an oil based urethane varnish or a waterborne product. If it has wax in it there is a possibility that you may have problems with both. You said blonde shellac, so this is something you mixed from flakes? If it's waxed you might want to test a piece of scrap before using either. Another possibility (if it's waxed) is to not use a urethane varnish. There are a couple of alkyd resin varnishes available (maybe) that won't have adhesion problems with the waxy shellac. One would be Pratt and Lambert 38. There are mixed messages about it's availability and it might be out of production...but if it's available it would be a very nice finish and doesn't shift the color nearly as much as the second one: Min Wax Fast Dry Oil Varnish. This used to be the SW Fast dry Oil varnish and was re labeled....but it is a linseed oil formula and has a fair amount of amber color. The P&L is soya oil based and doesn't have near the color shift. Even so, your best bet may be a catalyzed lacquer.
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(09-01-2020, 05:43 AM)fredhargis Wrote: If the shellac is dewaxed you shouldn't have any problems with either an oil based urethane varnish or a waterborne product. If it has wax in it there is a possibility that you may have problems with both. You said blonde shellac, so this is something you mixed from flakes? If it's waxed you might want to test a piece of scrap before using either. Another possibility (if it's waxed) is to not use a urethane varnish. There are a couple of alkyd resin varnishes available (maybe) that won't have adhesion problems with the waxy shellac. One would be Pratt and Lambert 38. There are mixed messages about it's availability and it might be out of production...but if it's available it would be a very nice finish and doesn't shift the color nearly as much as the second one: Min Wax Fast Dry Oil Varnish. This used to be the SW Fast dry Oil varnish and was re labeled....but it is a linseed oil formula and has a fair amount of amber color. The P&L is soya oil based and doesn't have near the color shift. Even so, your best bet may be a catalyzed lacquer.
Thanks Fred, my samples I was using Zinzer Blonde rattle can dewaxed, I have always had good luck with fresh cans cures hard and can re coat with poly.
What would you recommend in a catalyzed lacquer I've had 0 experience with lacquer but realize dry time is quick which is would be a big advantage. Thanks Tim
(09-01-2020, 10:41 AM)Tim J. Chase Wrote: Thanks Fred, my samples I was using Zinzer Blonde rattle can dewaxed, I have always had good luck with fresh cans cures hard and can re coat with poly.
What would you recommend in a catalyzed lacquer I've had 0 experience with lacquer but realize dry time is quick which is would be a big advantage. Thanks Tim
If you have spray equipment what you want is Zinsser's Sealcoat shellac. It's dewaxed and available in quarts and gallons. You have lots of options for a topcoat, but if you don't have an explosion proof spray booth or plan to spray outside then you should limit your choices to waterborne products. I spray Sealcoat in my non-explosion proof spray booth, but I don't recommend it unless you have done the airflow calculations to convince yourself it's safe. Among the waterborne topcoats there are many options to choose from. My favorite product is General Finishes Enduro Clear Poly. I did my own kitchen and bath cabinets with it. It sprays great and looks great, and is very hard and quite durable to kitchen spatters. Just don't use ammonia containing cleaners on it, or any topcoat for that matter. There are other quality waterbornes. If you want to use a catalyzed finish consider Target Coatings' EM800cv Conversion Varnish. Very, very durable.
About waterborne products over shellac, even dewaxed shellac. Waterborne finishes can sometimes craze when applied over shellac. It typically happens when too many coats of shellac were applied. I've never had it happen when using a waterborne over a single layer of shellac, but I have when I tried using it over 3 or 4 sprayed toner coats. All manufacturers recommend you stick with their sealers, and that's always the safe bet. Target Coatings is very clear not to use their products over shellac unless it's their WB product.
(09-01-2020, 08:05 PM)jteneyck Wrote: About waterborne products over shellac, even dewaxed shellac. Waterborne finishes can sometimes craze when applied over shellac. It typically happens when too many coats of shellac were applied.
John
This can absolutely happen. Cut the shellac 50/50 with alcohol and this should prevent/eliminate potential crazing. I would not apply more than two coats of shellac.
I use WB Target coatings almost exclusively as a top coat. Highly recommended.
I finished my kitchen cabinets (about 20 years ago) with the Enduro Waterborne poly. It does not tolerate the usual incidental water exposure that you will get on the cabinets surrounding the sink and dishwasher. If I ever build another set of kitchen cabinets (I doubt I ever will) it will be finished with traditional oil based poly or something like Waterlox. I have built cabinets for both my bathrooms and used either Waterlox or Oil Based Poly, and they show no signs of degradation from incidental water exposure.
(09-02-2020, 04:24 PM)Philip1231 Wrote: I finished my kitchen cabinets (about 20 years ago) with the Enduro Waterborne poly. It does not tolerate the usual incidental water exposure that you will get on the cabinets surrounding the sink and dishwasher. If I ever build another set of kitchen cabinets (I doubt I ever will) it will be finished with traditional oil based poly or something like Waterlox. I have built cabinets for both my bathrooms and used either Waterlox or Oil Based Poly, and they show no signs of degradation from incidental water exposure.
Which specific product are you referring to? I've had great service from both EnduroVar and Enduro Clear Poly. But if you are referring to High Performance Poly, which is not part of the Enduro product line, then I agree, it is not a good choice for applications where water and especially household cleaners are likely to be used.
(09-02-2020, 08:20 PM)jteneyck Wrote: Which specific product are you referring to? I've had great service from both EnduroVar and Enduro Clear Poly. But if you are referring to High Performance Poly, which is not part of the Enduro product line, then I agree, it is not a good choice for applications where water and especially household cleaners are likely to be used.
John
I believe it was called Enduro Poly (or something like that). This was before GF bought out the the company that made the Enduro product. It was their top of the line finish and it was highly rated and KCMA approved. It still failed. I will say that it provided a beautiful looking finish and made even an amateur sprayer like me look like an artist. FWIW, I have used the current EnduroVar product and it also provides an excellent finish: but I use it where it wont get wet.
(09-02-2020, 12:47 AM)Don_M Wrote: This can absolutely happen. Cut the shellac 50/50 with alcohol and this should prevent/eliminate potential crazing. I would not apply more than two coats of shellac.
I use WB Target coatings almost exclusively as a top coat. Highly recommended.
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