Crazy new festool offering

[Handplanesandmore]

For someone who hasn't tasted the Festool kool-aide....

What is a Systainer?  Why is it $100?  It looks like a plastic box.

The box is not worth a lot...the brand/color is. Same for the wrench/screwdriver set. I bet most buyers of that set already have something similar in their shops.

Woodworkers have never been known to be the most logical thinkers. But that's good for the economy.

Simon

[Bob10]

Part of it is brand appeal for sure but part of it is buying into the system.  All your tools fit into a modular system that can be stacked on top of each other or dolly or vacuum.   It's really no different than Milwaukee and their packout system, Bosch with their LBoxx, Dewalt, Makita, etc.  I'm not a contractor and my tools rarely leave my shop so the whole systainer thing was never a big selling point for me but if I was I might feel different.  I know a couple of contractors who love their packouts.

I have 2 of the sanders, Domino selection box and a Domino and have to say the Systainers are something I really like to keep things organized and I like being able to look at the box and see if everything made it back to where it needs to be.  I bought the Dewalt track saw and again it has a box that provides the same function for me

[Cooler]

For someone who hasn't tasted the Festool kool-aide....

What is a Systainer?  Why is it $100?  It looks like a plastic box.

Systainer is part of a "system" of containers that stack.  They are molded from ABS and are very durable.

Milwaukee has a system too (following on the heels of the Systainer) that is reputed to be even tougher.

This video is fun to watch and compares the toughness of the Systainer and the Milwaukee Packout System:

https://youtu.be/bFdikDcKrgg

and this:


https://youtu.be/Y65Z8oDkQss

[Cooler]

The thing that Festool does better than any other company is lead.  They were the first with track saws.  They were the first with truly effective dust collection on track saws and routers.

They were the first with the system of storage containers. 

It is one thing if you are the first if no one follows.  But in each case they are leading the industry in new directions.

I have a Festool track saw.  Is it worth the money?  I'm not sure.  Is it superior to the competitors?  It is superior to the lower cost ones;  Mafell costs as much or more and is probably their equal.

Kreg makes one and I hear it is serviceable; but not the same quality as Festool--lots cheaper though.

Makita and Dewalt make versions that are supposed to be better than Kreg, but cheaper than Festool/Mafell.

But whatever you decide to get, you are getting Festool's leadership in the package.

[FS7]

As a rule I eschew paying for the brand. This is common in a lot of areas, not just tools. Yeti coolers, for example, provide probably 10% more performance than Lifetime or Ozark Trail at between 500% and 1000% of the price. That technology is not incredibly unique.

It is generally true that you get what you pay for, which is why I don't want to pay for the brand. You can buy rail and stile bit sets made of Chinesium for $30 on Amazon. You can buy Freud sets for $100+. To me, the Freud sets are worth every penny, and they don't come with any "prestige" for doing so. Similarly, I bought a top of the line Whiteside flush trim bit, and it too has been worth every penny. Nobody cares if your YouTube woodworking channel shows Freud bits or Whiteside bits. But people recognize Festool from a mile away.

When I built the crib years ago that my youngest still uses I had a very strong use case for the Domino joiner. It provides both alignment and strength, and it's a pretty precise tool. I do think it is very expensive for what it is, but I use it often and it is a much stronger and more elegant solution than pocket screws or biscuits. There are no alternatives to the Domino, otherwise I probably would have considered them. This is the only Festool product that I own. I do not understand much of the others, as for example my Bosch and Makita sanders attached to a Bosch vacuum hose have excellent dust collection. I do not understand the "systainer" unless you want to be like that one guy I saw online with the immaculate, massive, and impeccably organized shop. It is a stackable plastic box. Costco sells those for about $3.

So there's a difference. You can have unique and relatively technologically advanced tools (the Domino), slightly improved versions of existing tools or combinations of tools (the track saw), marginal improvements over existing tools (the sander), or whatever is left (the "holy crap that's expensive" subset). I do not understand paying that much for something like simple wrenches or screwdrivers. I am not a mechanic, though the relatively inexpensive Crescent tools that I have work more than adequately for working on my vehicles. When I reach for a #2 Phillips screwdriver I almost always grab some no-name thing that came included for free with a set of casters I bought from Amazon. I have plenty of 6-in-1 or 11-in-1 screwdrivers that have been just fine. Those tools are way more likely to get lost rather than broken, so much like sunglasses there is no point whatsoever to paying for something fancy.

[Cooler]

[...]But people recognize Festool from a mile away.[...]

I think they recognized Festool for the green and beige color combination.

I do wonder if Lowes failure to carry Milwaukee Tools is because the Craftsman brand that they carry uses the same colors.  Their outer cartons are even more similar looking.

[Handplanesandmore]

People recognize festool because of its marketing efforts. Look at the fancy and professional product videos it carries whenever a new product comes to the market. It has a forum for its fans who also get info and help from each other. Third party tool makers and vendors support its products as well.

The color itself is less irrelevant. Yellow for Dewalt and orange for Ridgid. But neither is German technology; no matter how good the quality is, Chinese machines don't carry the prestige that those German tools do. Frankly, I don't see how a festool cordless drill that's 2 or 3 times in price is much better than its counterparts. 

Most festool owners are woodworkers. For them to buy the wrench/screwdriver set at that kind of price, there's only one justification in my view: want, not need. You can't really put a price on wants.

Simon

[Cooler]

Festool and the forum (F.O.G.--Festool Owners Group)is gaining the same standing as Harley Davidson and its owners' group (HOG) and approaches near cult status. 

But unlike Harley which celebrates its old technology, Festool is at the forefront of woodworking tool technology. 

It is a strong brand, but also a superior product.  Over-priced?  Maybe.  High quality? Certainly.

[stav]

I have never used nor laid hands on a systainer, but I would think the stacking would get old rather quickly.  If you have to lift a bunch of tools off the one on the bottom to get to it every time it would send me looking for a better solution.  What that would be I don't know.

I'm not a Festool hater.  I have a Makita track saw I found for a song on Craigslist.  I can appreciate the tech even if I'm not directly using it.

[camp10]

The thing that Festool does better than any other company is lead.  They were the first with track saws.  They were the first with truly effective dust collection on track saws and routers.

1) What is the last thing that Festool has innovated?  (Something like the Domino)  How long ago was that?

2) Do they have anything today that is so superior that it can't be had by a competitor at half the price?