Domino and Biscuit Joiner

[Handplanesandmore]

That obvious? LOL.

Simon

[lincmercguy]

"Whoever still argues that dominoes are an expensive component of a project should consider taking up something else as a hobby."

Yeah, when deciding to get the Domino, the price of the dominos themselves wasn't very off-putting, especially the smaller ones. Biscuits are cheaper, but the good oak dowel pins I was using were more expensive. I think consumable materials stays about the same for me.

I may use less pocket hole screws now. They were very cheap for me because I bought a couple gallon bags of them at a garage sale a few years ago for cheap.

[Cabinet Monkey]

......but it's true here.

simply because you say or think it so ?    Whatever !  

Specifically where does the OP mention about keeping or not keeping the biscuit joiner primarily for money reasons?

um........in post 19.   Pretty clear, which negates you emphatic cost is not relevant arguement.

end of story   



........except to say I think you meant to say "lack of money" when when you said linc should sell his domino ?  

 I enjoy producing fine work with fine tools.

Sure, but ya know the sayin " it's a poor craftsman who blames his tools ?  The corollary is true also.   Doesn't take fancy tools to produce great work.  There's no substitute for talent.  Though I will grant you, I've seen some tools make up for their user's lack of of skill.    I'm way more impressed by a guy who can make something with a few hand tools than I am by someone with a CNC or a shop full of the latest gee wiz tools shown on YT.

If you know someone who has used the domino joiner a lot 

I do, me.   Sure it's a game changer for some, but not everyone.  And there are certainly fanboys out there that think it hung the moon.  Which, it hasn't.   Some of the other loose tenon alternatives I already mentioned were avaialble for decades and could have been used for years by those guys that've had their world rocked by domino.  A dedicated setup of any one of them would have allowed those fellas to make the same things earlier and at a reduced cost.  Now, of course they wouldn't have their domino badge and systainer to show off, which I have to admit -  has value.    But how many of them had one of those setups before buying a domino ?   Not many I'll wager.    Which means they really didn't need loose tenon tenons as much as they thought they did, until the geniuses at TTS convinced them they did.    

Kinda like Norm convinced lots of guys they needed a biscuit joiner.  Which has sorta led us to this discussion in the first place.



And you've yet to mention the domino's shortcomigs - the main ones having been solved by third party vendors because festol was too ignorant, stupid, or arrogant to solve themselves.   It' an innovative and fine tool, but far from perfect; and not without alternatives.

[Handplanesandmore]

simply because you say or think it so ?    Whatever !  


um........in post 19.   Pretty clear, which negates you emphatic cost is not relevant arguement.

end of story   



........except to say I think you meant to say "lack of money" when when you said linc should sell his domino ?  



Sure, but ya know the sayin " it's a poor craftsman who blames his tools ?  The corollary is true also.   Doesn't take fancy tools to produce great work.  There's no substitute for talent.  Though I will grant you, I've seen some tools make up for their user's lack of of skill.    I'm way more impressed by a guy who can make something with a few hand tools than I am by someone with a CNC or a shop full of the latest gee wiz tools shown on YT.



I do, me.   Sure it's a game changer for some, but not everyone.  And there are certainly fanboys out there that think it hung the moon.  Which, it hasn't.   Some of the other loose tenon alternatives I already mentioned were avaialble for decades and could have been used for years by those guys that've had their world rocked by domino.  A dedicated setup of any one of them would have allowed those fellas to make the same things earlier and at a reduced cost.  Now, of course they wouldn't have their domino badge and systainer to show off, which I have to admit -  has value.    But how many of them had one of those setups before buying a domino ?   Not many I'll wager.    Which means they really didn't need loose tenon tenons as much as they thought they did, until the geniuses at TTS convinced them they did.    

Kinda like Norm convinced lots of guys they needed a biscuit joiner.  Which has sorta led us to this discussion in the first place.



And you've yet to mention the domino's shortcomigs - the main ones having been solved by third party vendors because festol was too ignorant, stupid, or arrogant to solve themselves.   It' an innovative and fine tool, but far from perfect; and not without alternatives.

When you said you do, you're kidding yourself. You haven't used the domino machine well and long enough, judging from your comments. In fact, I can safely say that you're not properly trained enough to use and explore its functions and potentials. I don't blame you because the machine, though brilliantly designed, has a deep learning curve. If you relied on its manual only, sorry your knowledge of the tool is limited. Some people go to festool training centers to be trained on that. But it's not necessary. To have a deep understanding of this tool, check out the festool forum where people share their shop experience and applications not covered by the manual. Or, use the machine and when you encounter problems, go ask for advice and help from others including this forum.

Did you know that Norm Abram went to one of the festool annual events, and acknowledged that he could've showcased many of the German tools if they were invented and offered for his show? He could've been a domino champion!

 

Your last remark illustrates my point: a lot of domino owners dont know their machine well enough or lack proper techniques, and have to rely on aftermarket gadgets to do what the machine alone itself can do. I have none of the gadgets. Please name any one third party gadget, and I can right here tell you why it isn't necessary.

We who are good at planing can true an edge with a handplane freehand. Those who dont have the skill would buy a fence and attach it to a plane to square an edge. People like you might say the handplane is a lousy tool or badly designed because it needs an accessory to do certain tasks.

With proper skill and techniques, the domino machine does everything it's designed to do without any clutches. That of course doesnt mean the machine can't be made better with some good aftermarket accessories.

Simon

[lincmercguy]

" the machine, though brilliantly designed, has a deep learning curve."

I did a bit of test work with mine and have used partly on two projects so far. I didn't think basic use was too bad to pick up. Before it arrived, I read the manual and watched a few videos. I'm sure I still have a lot to learn, but have picked up enough to make it useful.

[Handplanesandmore]

By deep learning curve, I mean so many new users on festool forum reporting issues with using the machine such as, off my head, misalignments, blow outs, breaking the smaller bits, fence drift, etc.

I believe the manual offers five examples of applications while festool trainers and numerous endusers have shown over the past years or so a lot more uses and techniques that are nowhere to find in the manual.

Simon

[Bill_de]

By deep learning curve, I mean so many new users on festool forum reporting issues with using the machine such as, off my head, misalignments, blow outs, breaking the smaller bits, fence drift, etc.


Simon

Woodworking is a hobby for me, and not my only hobby. I do not consider myself particularly good at it. My guess is that many of those folks who had issues with the Domino never bothered to learn even the basics of how to use it. It is not a very complex tool.

---

[Handplanesandmore]

Indeed the machine isn't complex, and that's part of the brilliance of the design. However, many people encounter problems because the manual is inadequate and because they use it just like a biscuit joiner which isn't a precision tool in comparison.

An example: users push the machine in a fast speed as if it were a b j or router. The manual should include info. on to properly feed the machine for accurate results every time.

Simon

[Cabinet Monkey]

 In fact, I can safely say that you're not properly trained enough 

Well, you'd be wrong.  


Again !   


I have been "trained" at the factory.    And I have Rick's fine supplemental manuals in print.   

I've also been a memeber of FOG - the original one on Yahoo before TTS strongarmed it away from the creator.   And have met and talked to Nahm on three separate occasions.   No doubt he could have peddaled festools on the show.   I even suggested as much to Christian at IWF many, many years ago, because Tom Silva already used the gear courtsey of Bob Marino.   

None of that changes anything with regard to domino.   It just isn't a necessity for my work, and many people fall in the same boat.  I'm happy that it was a game changer for you, but that doesn't make it a game changer for everyone.  

So how about piping down on how superior you think your knowledge is over mine because you drank the kool aid.  Grow up.   Dominos have sold themselves since they came out.  They are still fine , and don't need your cheerleading to help sell them or spread the word.   They are doing just fine on their own.

[Lumber Yard®]