Lie Nielsen tool production and COVID

[dave brown]

Just curious, does anyone have an inside line on when Lie Nielsen plans to ramp up production again? I know there is a lot of pent up demand for their products. I've been waiting to pull the trigger on a no48 or 49 but I'm not willing to pay the prices they're commanding on the second hand market. I'm going to shoot them an email and will reply here with anything that I find out.

[Scott W]

I'm sure a lot of folks would appreciate knowing what you find out.

[SPFurnitureMaker]

I watched a video interview with Thomas Lie-Nielsen about how Covid 19 is affecting the company. One of the biggest problems is the companies location. It's rural and there's just not a large enough pool of qualified workers. Once Covid hit the region they had no one to fill the positions, even the foundry in town that they need was in the same boat. I wish I could find the video again.

This is from the LN website, https://www.lie-nielsen.com/pages/tool-a...y-covid-19

P.S. Just a heads up about the #48/#49 Planes. These are considered nonessential and they build 6-12 at a time. I know first hand. I had lengthy phone conversations with Deneb about LN business practices! I love the products and I really hope they can get back to 100% We need companies like them along with LV, Blue Spruce, etc.

[mongo]

This was back in March.  Basically they have been producing as fast as the circumstances will allow.  They were required to shut down for 3 months at the same time demand increased exponentially.

https://handtoolbookreview.com/index.php/page/2/


I get it I have some tools I want from them too.  But there are supply and labor shortages on lots of things.  Add an explosion of people getting into the craft... well its going to take a while to catch up.  

[AHill]

LN is such a unique business. Pretty much out in the middle of the woods in rural Maine. Hard to find qualified employees willing to move to Warren, Maine. His margins are so thin, he doesn't have redundant capacity for most tooling and even workers for that matter. He said in the linked podcast he only has 2 employees that make saws, so if one has to be in quarantine or goes on vacation, production of saws gets cut in half. Lie-Nielsen also admitted in the interview that demand for many of their tools is sparse at best. I think part of the reason is when you don't have any in stock, many will go elsewhere (e.g. Lee Valley). LN didn't say the demand for tools during COVID has grown exponentially. He said orders kept coming in, but he had to shut the plant down for 3 months. At a minimum, that means (at least back in March), if you ordered even a common plane, you may have to wait 3 months to get it. I'm not down on LN. They make fine tools and I own 14 LN planes and a full set of bench chisels. And let's not forget that Lee Valley also suffered a lag in production (quarantines plus supply chain issues).

I wouldn't necessarily agree that there's been an explosion of folks in the hobby. I think if that were true, you'd find an increase in WoodNet membership (as well as other forums e.g. Sawmill Creek, Woodjocks, etc.). I don't see that happening. Lumber prices during the pandemic rose astronomically, so where did folks get their stock from? From what I've seen on TV in the how-to shows and home rehab shows, the tools in demand are common hand tools and basic power tools - not fine hand tools like Veritas or LN. For example, there's one short segment telling you how to cut a recycled barnwood board into coasters using a chop saw. Seriously? That's not fine woodworking. It's not even coarse woodworking to me. Even the stuff that Tommy does on Ask This Old House uses pretty much basic hand and power tools.

[Admiral]

I wouldn't necessarily agree that there's been an explosion of folks in the hobby.  I think if that were true, you'd find an increase in WoodNet membership (as well as other forums e.g. Sawmill Creek, Woodjocks, etc.).  I don't see that happening. 

I think there's a big difference between the basic DIY types making lawn chairs, patio furniture and building "covid desks" (and I use the term "build" with a grain of salt, as they just take a slab and put hairpin legs on it and call it a "build") and those who are getting into hand tools.  I'm a 68 year old fart who works in Tech, and its pretty clear to me that young folks who sit in front of computers coding and processing data all day are looking for more of a hands on experience, and many are in urban areas and in apartments/condos with no space for a power tool shop.  Some have found out that I have experience in the hobby and I get at least 4 or 5 emails a week from other employees in my company with questions or pics of their work; they also ask me about buying vintage tools.  They are building small benches for handtool work and turning to hand tools to get some personal satisfaction, and something concrete to show for their efforts.  They also tend to rely on youtube for information and most of that content is garbage (IMNSHO) but some figure that out and gravitate to Sellers.  They make above average incomes and will pay for online video content and training, and will also not hesitate in the least to pay up for quality tools.  Their view is "only $475 for a LN #8, hell, an iPhone 12 Pro Max is $1,100, a plane is a bargain!"  So at least in my industry, there's a lot of interest and its growing.

Oh, and since I work for an international company, this is not only in the US, but also in Europe and Asia.

Heck, even if we say that only 5,000 "new" handtool users worldwide just in Tech, and with the broad perception that LV and LN are the gold standard of new production handtools, that is a massive increase in demand, one might say explosive increase . . . and these people are not just buying one plane either.

[Bob10]

I think there's a big difference between the basic DIY types making lawn chairs, patio furniture and building "covid desks" (and I use the term "build" with a grain of salt, as they just take a slab and put hairpin legs on it and call it a "build") and those who are getting into hand tools.  I'm a 68 year old fart who works in Tech, and its pretty clear to me that young folks who sit in front of computers coding and processing data all day are looking for more of a hands on experience, and many are in urban areas and in apartments/condos with no space for a power tool shop.  Some have found out that I have experience in the hobby and I get at least 4 or 5 emails a week from other employees in my company with questions or pics of their work; they also ask me about buying vintage tools.  They are building small benches for handtool work and turning to hand tools to get some personal satisfaction, and something concrete to show for their efforts.  They also tend to rely on youtube for information and most of that content is garbage (IMNSHO) but some figure that out and gravitate to Sellers.  They make above average incomes and will pay for online video content and training, and will also not hesitate in the least to pay up for quality tools.  Their view is "only $475 for a LN #8, hell, an iPhone 12 Pro Max is $1,100, a plane is a bargain!"  So at least in my industry, there's a lot of interest and its growing.

Oh, and since I work for an international company, this is not only in the US, but also in Europe and Asia.

Heck, even if we say that only 5,000 "new" handtool users worldwide just in Tech, and with the broad perception that LV and LN are the gold standard of new production handtools, that is a massive increase in demand, one might say explosive increase . . . and these people are not just buying one plane either.

Google and Facebook employees are/were work from Home.  I know Woodcraft runs a program at one of them possibly both.  That's enough to eat up any produced

[CStan]

Rural idyll, not so ideal.

Still back-ordered on iron 4s, 5s, and 7s.

Pitiful.

[Eric Commarato]

Rural idyll, not so ideal.

Still back-ordered on iron 4s, 5s, and 7s.

Pitiful.

Yes, I concur.  It is really pitiful.  I've been searching for a Scrub Plane and they have been out of stock for at least as long as I can remember.  The scrub plane market prices for LN on ebay is seriously out of wack. I was going to order a LV Scrub Plane, they were due in early July and now their site updated the back order date to September.  Very frustrating for sure.

[Mike Brady]

Check your PMs, Eric.