Stropping State-of-the-Art
#31
(12-13-2021, 06:30 PM)wmickley Wrote: I don't think you know what you are talking about. Decades? We have been using strops for razors for millennia. 

Silica in cowhide? Documentation?

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IMO, Allan knows what he is talking about. IIRC he has a degree in metalurgy..Silica is among the most common minerals on earth..It is in {and ON} everything, including leather and fabric. It is harder than steel..it can abrade steel..IIRC it is #5 on the Mohs Scale. When a tool gets dull, the edge either folds over or it chips.. When you sharpen, you are reforming" an edge by abrasion or by "folding" the thin steel edge back into alignment. That's how an edge can be "sharpened" on Blue Jeans or leather...it is being "realigned"...not abraded to any great extent. We "speed up" that abrasion by applying a polishing compound to a strop, but it can be accelerated by stropping on a moving belt or a wheel that has been charged with a fine abrasive.

When you test for sharpness by shaving the hair on your arm, you are "trapping" the hair between your skin and the moving edge of the blade. That is usually satisfactory for woodworking. But to me, the ultimate test is piercing and slicing a Kleenex tissue..The downside is...an edge that sharp {and thin} will fold almost instantly on wood. The solution is to increase the bevel angle. Like everything in life, it's a trade-off..So forget shaving the hair on your arm or slicing a piece of paper and instead, try cleanly piercing and slicing a paper towel..
Big Grin
"If you don't read newspapers you're uninformed...If you do read newspapers, you're misinformed.....Mark Twain

Jack Edgar, Sgt. USMC Korea, the Forgotten War 50/55
Get off my lawn !
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#32
(12-14-2021, 02:07 AM)bandit571 Wrote: Here is something else to think about...

When I am sitting down at the bench, chopping joints with a chisel.....a quick "strop" just using the pants leg of my jeans...and back to chopping.....just some old blue jeans I wear to the shop...aka .."Work Clothes".   maybe 4 or 5 strokes on the bevel, a couple on the back of the chisel....and back to work.

YMMV....
Winkgrin
Winkgrin

I highly recommend that anyone trying to use bandit's stropping method for the first time wear some kind of leg guard under their pants!!!
Laugh......and continue to do so every time they step into their shop if stropping on the pants is their thing.

Simon
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#33
(12-14-2021, 09:36 AM)Timberwolf Wrote: .......................
..So forget shaving the hair on your arm or slicing a piece of paper and instead, try cleanly piercing and slicing a paper towel..
Big Grin

Since paper towel can come in different thicknesses (ply) and strengths, a piece of paper remains a more reliable way of testing the sharpness of an edge.

The proper way to do it with paper -- which a lot of woodworkers do it wrongly regardless of their sharpening methods, media and experience -- is not to slice the paper at an angle. Cut the honed edge at a right angle into the edge of the paper. If the paper crumbles, it ain't sharp enough for the finest work. (In case anyone wonders. Stropping is NOT required to get an edge sharp enough to slice a piece of paper cleanly at 90*.)

Simon
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#34
(12-14-2021, 10:58 AM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: Since paper towel can come in different thicknesses (ply) and strengths, a piece of paper remains a more reliable way of testing the sharpness of an edge.

The proper way to do it with paper -- which a lot of woodworkers do it wrongly regardless of their sharpening methods, media and experience -- is not to slice the paper at an angle. Cut the honed edge at a right angle into the edge of the paper. If the paper crumbles, it ain't sharp enough for the finest work. (In case anyone wonders. Stropping is NOT required to get an edge sharp enough to slice a piece of paper cleanly at 90*.)

Simon
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Paper comes in different thicknesses and densities also, just like paper towels. Examples are phone books, newsprint etc.... What I keep around my bench are the cheapest ones which are usually very thin, single ply..I use the better ones like Bounty, in the kitchen where I need the absorbency. It also matters whether you are making a clean slicing or a clean push cut..a clean push cut is produced by a sharper edge.
"If you don't read newspapers you're uninformed...If you do read newspapers, you're misinformed.....Mark Twain

Jack Edgar, Sgt. USMC Korea, the Forgotten War 50/55
Get off my lawn !
Upset





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#35
(12-14-2021, 11:34 AM)Timberwolf Wrote: ......
Paper comes in different thicknesses and densities also, just like paper towels. Examples are phone books, newsprint etc.... What I keep around my bench are the cheapest ones which are usually very thin, single ply..I use the better ones like Bounty, in the kitchen where I need the absorbency. It also matters whether you are making a clean slicing or a clean push cut..a clean push cut is produced by a sharper edge.

To clarify, by paper, I mean the readily available office/ A4 kind of paper, not newsprint or color books. Most people I know don't subscribe for print newspaper anymore. Yellow pages are also gone for years and years.

Even a relatively dull edge can slice a paper nicely. That's why many sharpening salesmen show that at the end of their demos. I never call them out because for woodworking, a super sharp edge isn't necessary at all. All this talk of "better" sharpening technique or method is for those who want to spend more time on sharpening or studying about it than on really making things with hand tools.

Simon
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#36
(12-14-2021, 12:22 PM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: To clarify, by paper, I mean the readily available office/ A4 kind of paper, not newsprint or color books. Most people I know don't subscribe for print newspaper anymore. Yellow pages are also gone for years and years.

Even a relatively dull edge can slice a paper nicely. That's why many sharpening salesmen show that at the end of their demos. I never call them out because for woodworking, a super sharp edge isn't necessary at all. All this talk of "better" sharpening technique or method is for those who want to spend more time on sharpening or studying about it than on really making things with hand tools.

Simon
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All this talk of "better" sharpening technique or method is for those who want to spend more time on sharpening or studying about it than on really making things with hand tools.
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I agree with that..and that would be me now that I have reached an age that prevents me from doing very much at all that involves standing. Most of what I do now involves sitting..
Crazy..I am still in pursuit of the "perfect edge", which I am more and more convinced does not exist. I think most woodnetters in handtools know that I am a "power stropping" geek but actually I really enjoy making wood carving knives and using exotic woods for the handles..and I also enjoy making the tools that allow me to "make those tools"..from raw, commonly available metals, surplus motors etc. But I do have a pretty extensive collection of sharpening stones and machines accumulated from attending many years of tool meets, flea markets etc. ......

I made this one about 30yrs ago and use it frequently.

[Image: fullsizeoutput-116f.jpg]

Some finished, some a work in progress...in a junk box.
Big Grin

[Image: fullsizeoutput-1170.jpg]
"If you don't read newspapers you're uninformed...If you do read newspapers, you're misinformed.....Mark Twain

Jack Edgar, Sgt. USMC Korea, the Forgotten War 50/55
Get off my lawn !
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#37
(12-14-2021, 08:48 AM)wmickley Wrote: It sounds like you have no idea of the difference between silica, SiO2 (hard) and silicates (soft).

From Encylopedia Brittanica:

[b]silica[/b], also called [b]silicon dioxide[/b]compound of the two most abundant elements in Earth’s crust, silicon and oxygen, SiO2. The mass of Earth’s crust is 59 percent silica, the main [color=var(--black)]constituent[/color] of more than 95 percent of the known rocks. Silica has three main crystalline varieties: quartz (by far the most abundant), tridymite, and cristobalite. Other varieties include coesite, keatite, and lechatelierite. Silica sand is used in buildings and roads in the form of portland cementconcrete, and mortar, as well as sandstone. Silica also is used in grinding and polishing glass and stone; in foundry molds; in the manufacture of glass, ceramicssilicon carbide, ferrosilicon, and silicones; as a refractory material; and as gemstonesSilica gel is often used as a desiccant to remove moisture.
Still Learning,

Allan Hill
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#38
(12-15-2021, 08:20 AM)AHill Wrote: From Encylopedia Brittanica:

[b]silica[/b], also called [b]silicon dioxide[/b]compound of the two most abundant elements in Earth’s crust, silicon and oxygen, SiO2. The mass of Earth’s crust is 59 percent silica, the main [color=var(--black)]constituent[/color] of more than 95 percent of the known rocks. Silica has three main crystalline varieties: quartz (by far the most abundant), tridymite, and cristobalite. Other varieties include coesite, keatite, and lechatelierite. Silica sand is used in buildings and roads in the form of portland cementconcrete, and mortar, as well as sandstone. Silica also is used in grinding and polishing glass and stone; in foundry molds; in the manufacture of glass, ceramicssilicon carbide, ferrosilicon, and silicones; as a refractory material; and as gemstonesSilica gel is often used as a desiccant to remove moisture.
Yes, you said there was silica in strops, then when questioned you linked to articles which referenced silicates which are much softer than silica. Magnesium silicate, for example is 1 on the Mohs scale.
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#39
I keep a piece of MDF coated with green compound on my bench. Depending on what I'm doing, every 3-4 strops sessions b/t honing.
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#40
(12-16-2021, 02:54 PM)rwe2156 Wrote: I keep a piece of MDF coated with green compound on my bench.  Depending on what I'm doing, every 3-4 strops sessions b/t honing.

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A piece of cotton web belting glued to a board makes a very good strop when charged with honing compound. The rough, slightly corrugated surface really holds the charge a long time. Never tried nylon belting but I'll bet it would work as well...
"If you don't read newspapers you're uninformed...If you do read newspapers, you're misinformed.....Mark Twain

Jack Edgar, Sgt. USMC Korea, the Forgotten War 50/55
Get off my lawn !
Upset





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