Availability of 4/4 hardwood

[alexh1]

Hi,

In terms of solid wood projects (vs MDF) I have done a few but I realized all were constrained, meaning they were nailed or screwed to a wall. I made some hard maple half box pilasters with mitered edges and I recall they required a tremendous amount of force to line up the miter edges because stock was warped.

One the few unconstrained projects I made was a fancy redwood garden gate (using 2x6 stock for the rails and stiles) and it immediately warped about 1" when I installed it. I think my error was acclimating it to my shop vs. outdoor and also I should have started with thicker stock and face jointed/planed to final 1.5" or even 2" thick.

The reason I mention this is because where I live most of the hardwood suppliers sell hardwood as S2S1S and they call it 4/4 but its actually 3/4" + 1/16". I think this is because they sell mostly to hobbyists that may not have a jointer/planer so the additional 1/16" is to plane or sand out the planer marks.. Next size up is 8/4.

Using 3/4" stock to make cabinet doors seems like crapshoot in terms of being dead flat especially if its an inset door.
I think you can increase the odds of 3/4" stock being dead flat by storing properly, my long stock storage has supports with about 4' spacing which is probably a bit much.

I can get 4/4 but I have drive a bit further to a professional supplier. Also noticed they are a lot nicer than the hobbyist shops, probably because the hobbyists often don't really know what they want.

So I was wondering do most of you start with true 4/4 (I assume rough because S2S would be a waste) so you can guarantee dead flat for most projects?

Also, the maple I get usually ends up with some chip out even though my planer blades are near new. I try to cut around these but its not always possible. I suspect commercial shops plane, then belt sand to eliminate these. I have tried filler on these but it always stands out, I think best approach is to fill clear so at least after finishing they won't stand out in reflected light.

[fredhargis]

I don't know what most of us do, but in the last 15 years or so I've always started with rough sawn lumber. Typically 4/4, but at times 5/4 and 6/4, depending on what I can find at my dealer. Speaking of dealer, mine (at least the one I use the most) is 70 miles one way but I consider that the cost of living in the sticks (sort of).

[jteneyck]

The only way to truly control quality is to start with rough or skip planed stock.  It helps control cost, too.  If you have to drive further, so be it.  And at true thickness it's far easier to get a dead flat 3/4" out of 4/4 rough stock, especially if it moved as it acclimated to your shop conditions.  

John

[Kansas City Fireslayer]

I will add that I buy or prefer 4/4 rough sawn stock if I’m making a special piece and I want my best chances at my best possible surface. That said, I almost always by skip planed S3S at 13/16 if buying poplar, maple or alder. 13/16 saves time and my suppliers blades do pretty well. I have had a sawmill chip out 13/16” hard maple due to poor equipment and some was pretty bad. Maple planes best on straight blade machines if you lightly dampen the wood fibers before hopefully skewing the board through the planer.

[MichaelMouse]

The reason I mention this is because where I live most of the hardwood suppliers sell hardwood as S2S1S and they call it 4/4 but its actually 3/4" + 1/16". I think this is because they sell mostly to hobbyists that may not have a jointer/planer so the additional 1/16" is to plane or sand out the planer marks.. Next size up is 8/4.

Using 3/4" stock to make cabinet doors seems like crapshoot in terms of being dead flat especially if its an inset door.
I think you can increase the odds of 3/4" stock being dead flat by storing properly, my long stock storage has supports with about 4' spacing which is probably a bit much.

13/16 is the standard for planed hardwood. 2019-rulebook_web.pdf (nhla.com)  Standard widths are also given, as well as grades, in the NHLA standards.  If you'd like to learn before posting again, try them.

Grades determine, to a great degree, whether stock will be flat.  You can't make it so by stacking.  I say great degree, because northern hardwoods and old growth hardwoods have closer annual rings, and allow sawing for stability as well as grade.  For knowledge on how/why wood moves while drying, see Forest Products Laboratory -- Forest Service -- USDA (fs.fed.us) and learn the early/late wood factors which govern warp.

As an old guy, I can remember buying my wood from mills using circular saws.  4/4 was normally 1 1/8 rough in those days.  Now, with the advent of band mills, 1" is about as much as you'll get.  As mentioned, skip-planing is ~7/8, surfaced 13/16.  

Softwood is sawed and graded to a separate standard.

[Cian]

I don't know what most of us do, but in the last 15 years or so I've always started with rough sawn lumber. Typically 4/4, but at times 5/4 and 6/4, depending on what I can find at my dealer.

What he said. Typical process with the jointer and planer.

[FS7]

I have been using rough lumber almost exclusively ever since I first bought my planer. My local suppliers vary between very rough (1 1/16" or so, not necessarily all that flat or consistent) to pretty straight and even (1"). The price reflects that.

One of the things I had thought of very early on was that we are woodworkers, not machinists. I remember reading about people measuring table saw arbor runout in the thousands of an inch and declaring that unacceptable. That to me is a degree of accuracy and precision that simply makes no sense given the nature of wood. It moves seasonally, it moves while drying, and it moves based on exposure to moisture. Being "dead flat" at one point in the construction process does not mean it will stay that way.

I rarely face joint boards. I've recently made a bunch of projects out of sapele, and when making things like doors I don't worry about it. That is the place where people most often focus on dead flat, and I don't think it's necessary. I use the stock as thick as I can, simply because I don't see the point in making sawdust just to make sawdust. Even a large door, say 36" x 24", is not going to warp much at all at 7/8" or 1" thick. The stock is cut from much larger boards which are pretty flat to begin with. Even a warped 9' board can be broken down into smaller and shorter boards that are much flatter, and in many cases they can be forced into alignment.

The other thing is while I've gotten much better with my jointer technique over the years, it is very difficult to joint a board "dead flat." I will run a board through a tuned jointer over and over, and there are often slight gaps. Worse yet, they don't necessarily appear at the same places. But it's for this reason that I don't worry about those things - adding a couple hundred pounds of clamping pressure along with glue will make those microscopic gaps disappear as the fibers alternately compress (from the force) and swell (from the glue). It's nice to watch videos provided by Kreg or Festool and see stock that's perfectly 100% square and flat. That's not exactly the real world.

[rwe2156]

I think its b/c of demand. They are catering to millworks and cabinet shops, not furnituremakers. They are not super worried about thickness & want to surface everything through a sander and be done with it.

I've found its a dealer by dealer issue. One of my suppliers sells all S2S milled to 13/16. The only rough stock is 8/4 soft maple (?). Another one you may find a whole stack of rough cherry or mahogany but next month its gone and its all S2S.

The best lumber I get for furniture is directly from the sawmill. Unfortunately for me, that entails either a 6 or 8 hour drive and I end up buying $1000 worth of lumber :-D. The issue with sawmills is kiln dried or air dried? If its air dried and its been sitting around, stuff can get bug infested.

I think the ideal situation is custom milled, you pick it up right away and you have your own kiln.

What MM^ said I've found to be true. I was actually at the mill watching my logs get sawed and noted to the sawyer what he called 4/4 was actually a hair over 7/8. With a funny look on his face he asked me what I wanted and I said 1" is the minimum for 4/4, a 1/16 to an 1/8 over makes me smile.

[jteneyck]

I think its b/c of demand.  They are catering to millworks and cabinet shops, not furnituremakers.  They are not super worried about thickness & want to surface everything through a sander and be done with it.

I've found its a dealer by dealer issue.  One of my suppliers sells all S2S milled to 13/16.  The only rough stock is 8/4 soft maple (?).  Another one you may find a whole stack of rough cherry or mahogany but next month its gone and its all S2S.

The best lumber I get for furniture is directly from the sawmill.  Unfortunately for me, that entails either a 6 or 8 hour drive and I end up buying $1000 worth of lumber :-D.  The issue with sawmills is kiln dried or air dried?  If its air dried and its been sitting around, stuff can get bug infested.

I think the ideal situation is custom milled, you pick it up right away and you have your own kiln.

What MM^ said I've found to be true.  I was actually at the mill watching my logs get sawed and noted to the sawyer what he called 4/4 was actually a hair over 7/8.  With a funny look on his face he asked me what I wanted and I said 1" is the minimum for 4/4, a 1/16 to an 1/8 over makes me smile.

That guy was a hack.  The minimum thickness standard for 4/4 lumber is 1.0" AFTER kiln drying.  The bandsaw mill I bought gives a very generous 1-1/8" off the mill but that accounts for the shrinkage of QS lumber.  

If you are buying green lumber don't accept anything less than 1-1/16" for plain sawn and 1-1/8" for QS 4/4 stock unless you are getting a discount.  

John

[tablesawtom]

Usually I buy S2S and it comes in around 15/16ths in thickness from a local saw mill.. I do not have much of a problem with chip out on my maple because I buy FAS grade maple. Notice I said I didn't have much.  If you go down in grade to say #1 common in maple then more chip out can be expected.

I buy Kiln dried lumber and I trust the sawmill that I buy from. I have been buying from them for years and never had a problem with their lumber so I do not even own a moisture meter. I do not acclimate the wood. I go right to cutting it to rough size. 

The first step is to put it on a sled and do straight line rip the whole length. 

Then I decide what pieces I want from a board or different boards. I prefer to cut my boards about 1/4 of an inch wider than the finished size and  2-4 inches longer than the finished part needs to be. 

I then take a magic marker or heavy leaded pencil and mark what the detail or what the part is and hang it on a hook so air gets to all sides of the wood equally and it also allows for any stress in the wood to work itself out.  

I do not have mush problem with chip out because I have straight knives and My infeed table on my jointer is set for a .015 and a 1/2 or .0156.  2 passes is 1/32 and 4 passes is a 1/16. Light cuts are less likely to chip out than a heavier cut.