Do I need a 16" planer?

[®smpr_fi_mac®]

What happens if you replace BOTH the 12" planer and the 12" joiner with the 16" planer and a 16" wide carrier board to do jointing in the planer?

That way, you never need to do the Byrd-head upgrade for the jointer and you may break even on the floor space.

Is this a feasible option for 10' boards?  I've always thought that carrier sleds were a bit of a compromise and not ideal.  Mind you, I've never used one. 

I'm contemplating a Maslow CNC in the future.  If I get one and find that it can flatten a face well (even if slower than a jointer) I'll likely give up my jointer for the space saved.

[Bob Vaughan]

Here's the deal:  A buddy has offered to give me a 1950-something Powermatic E16 planer.  16" wide.  In good running shape.  He is primarily a turner, and has a 100 that he loves and is his primary planer when he needs one.  He just needs the space the E16 eats up. 

Check the feed speeds of the E-16. at its slowest, it may be faster than you want.
Some E-16s I've worked on did not have jack screws for the blade so setting the knives was a pain.
I used a 100 for years and went to an 18".  I miss the conveniences of the little 12" planer when dressing two or three boards, but the wider bed has advantages for glue-ups.  I wouldn't go back.
The E-16 will have a longer bed so that's an advantage.  Less snipe although that wasn't a big problem with my PM 100.
The E-16 is an old planer so there's the high possibility of wear.  The bed could have a swag in the middle and the rollers could be worn in the middle like grandma's rolling pin.  What that could mean is the planed stock will be thicker when fed through the middle of the table.  The serrated infeed roller could have the serrations worn to the point of needing re-turned, or worse, re-grooved.
The bearings on the E-16 are more expensive than standard bearings because of the extended inner race.  IIRC, they are 88307 size, but check that.
There's a lot to consider even assuming there's a single phase motor on it.

[fredhargis]

Is this a feasible option for 10' boards?

I can't imagine how unhandy that would be, I'm sure it could be done....but it wouldn't be pretty.

[ajkoontz]

I have a 24x24 shop and have a 15" 4 post planer. The footprint of that planer is not really an issue and even a 20" would fit if I wanted it too. I went from a lunchbox to a 15" and eventually added a Byrd head  so it was a huge upgrade, not for the width so much but the power, speed, and accuracy. I've never regretted not getting a 20". I could live with a 12" PM 100 but since this deal fell into your lap, I'd probably jump on it.

Your market may be different but I think that PM 100 is worth $1,500 all day long. But I'll use your $1,000 number to evaluate some options. So your costs to upgrade would be:

Old Arn 16" planer with shelix head- $600 (and a couple tanks of gas)
New 15" Grizzly w/ shelix- $2,200 + shipping/ tax
New 20" Grizzly w/ shelix- $3,200 + shipping/ tax

I'd probably do the upgrade in your shoes. New machines are crazy high right now and I don't see them coming down any time soon. So if you're ever going to get a bigger planer, I don't think you'll find a better deal. I wouldn't be surprised if you break-even or come out a little ahead after you sell your PM 100.

[Lumber Yard®]

I'm contemplating a Maslow CNC in the future.  If I get one and find that it can flatten a face well (even if slower than a jointer) I'll likely give up my jointer for the space saved.

I can't imagine anyone that actually owns and uses a CNC router would ever think or advocate that it could replace a full size jointer or planer for general woodworking tasks. 
  Like anything, there are a million ways to accomplish a task in woodworking but most of the time using the correct tool for the job is the right way to go. 

[®smpr_fi_mac®]

I can't imagine anyone that actually owns and uses a CNC router would ever think or advocate that it could replace a full size jointer or planer for general woodworking tasks. 
  Like anything, there are a million ways to accomplish a task in woodworking but most of the time using the correct tool for the job is the right way to go. 

Back when I was in a single car garage shop, I didn't have enough space for a jointer, so I did a quick flattening with a hand plane before running through the planer.  It wasn't ideal, but it made best use of my limited space.  I don't really think the CNC is the best route to go (especially with my current set up), but that could change!

[®smpr_fi_mac®]

Check the feed speeds of the E-16. at its slowest, it may be faster than you want.
Some E-16s I've worked on did not have jack screws for the blade so setting the knives was a pain.
I used a 100 for years and went to an 18".  I miss the conveniences of the little 12" planer when dressing two or three boards, but the wider bed has advantages for glue-ups.  I wouldn't go back.
The E-16 will have a longer bed so that's an advantage.  Less snipe although that wasn't a big problem with my PM 100.
The E-16 is an old planer so there's the high possibility of wear.  The bed could have a swag in the middle and the rollers could be worn in the middle like grandma's rolling pin.  What that could mean is the planed stock will be thicker when fed through the middle of the table.  The serrated infeed roller could have the serrations worn to the point of needing re-turned, or worse, re-grooved.
The bearings on the E-16 are more expensive than standard bearings because of the extended inner race.  IIRC, they are 88307 size, but check that.
There's a lot to consider even assuming there's a single phase motor on it.

I'm not too concerned about the shape of the cutter head, as it'll be pulled and replaced with an indexed head before going into action. Price of bearings aren't a huge concern if the machine is otherwise in good shape; I can't imagine them being expensive enough to be daunting (especially when they're good for what...ten, twenty, thirty years?
). I'll reach out and have him check the bed for dishing. I think it has a solid infeed roller. I'll ask him to check those, too. I'll look up the feed rate, too. Aside from cutting curly woods, would the feed rate matter much? If that's a concern, I think a segmented head would address that concern, no?

I think it has a 5hp motor in it. If it's single, that's plug and play. If three, then I'll get a VFD for it; I prefer the use of 3ph motors over 1ph anyway.

I have a 24x24 shop and have a 15" 4 post planer. The footprint of that planer is not really an issue and even a 20" would fit if I wanted it too. I went from a lunchbox to a 15" and eventually added a Byrd head  so it was a huge upgrade, not for the width so much but the power, speed, and accuracy. I've never regretted not getting a 20". I could live with a 12" PM 100 but since this deal fell into your lap, I'd probably jump on it.

Your market may be different but I think that PM 100 is worth $1,500 all day long. But I'll use your $1,000 number to evaluate some options. So your costs to upgrade would be:

Old Arn 16" planer with shelix head- $600 (and a couple tanks of gas)
New 15" Grizzly w/ shelix- $2,200 + shipping/ tax
New 20" Grizzly w/ shelix- $3,200 + shipping/ tax

I'd probably do the upgrade in your shoes. New machines are crazy high right now and I don't see them coming down any time soon. So if you're ever going to get a bigger planer, I don't think you'll find a better deal. I wouldn't be surprised if you break-even or come out a little ahead after you sell your PM 100.

Yeah, I agree on being able to get the larger amount for the 100...but how long will it take? Oh, the head for the E-16 will be closer to $1600 than $600!

Thanks for the arguments for and against! You've given me more to think on.

[Cian]

What does the brain trust here say?  Yes, I love the old arn and eventually hope to build a big shop full of it, but if you were in my shoes, do you think it would be a good idea now?

They say what separates the men from the boys is the cost of their toys. 



Seriously though, given you are satisfied with your current planer, have plans to add both a drum sander AND an edge sander in your limited shop space, I say pass.  I have turned down great deals in recent years because of the same considerations - actual need and available space.

[jteneyck]

Is this a feasible option for 10' boards?  I've always thought that carrier sleds were a bit of a compromise and not ideal.  Mind you, I've never used one. 

I'm contemplating a Maslow CNC in the future.  If I get one and find that it can flatten a face well (even if slower than a jointer) I'll likely give up my jointer for the space saved.

The Maslow CNC is a near vertically oriented unit.  Just holding a piece of wood on it to joint the face flat would be a challenge, not even talking about how slow it would be to accomplish.  

When you get serious about a CNC take another look at horizontal machines, or one that folds up or lifts up out of the way.  Horizontal orientation is just so much more friendly to use.  Don't let perceived lack of space lead you to a decision you might soon regret.

John

[Lumber Yard®]

The Maslow CNC isn't a machine that most folks considering doing CNC work would ever look at but I don't want to rain on the OP parade.