Paul Sellers sharpening system, which diamond stones?
#71
(05-03-2022, 12:15 PM)AHill Wrote: I wonder if our forebears were aware of the 3-stone method to get things flat.  Otherwise, we'd see a lot of very wavy surfaces on antique furniture.  There are a lot of vintage sharpening stones that are dished.  I believe the vast majority of dished stones came from tradesmen and farmers who only owned one stone.  I also think we forget that they used sandstone grinders from which they could still get a decent edge and straight bevel.

Kind of ironic in this context. Paul talked about how fine a grit we really need to sharpen an edge good enough to do acceptable work. I quibbled with his rationale, but not his point.

We obviously have super fine uniform abrasives. But that wasn't really an issue for folks 200 years ago. They too had access to fine abrasives. Fine abrasives have been available since the dawn of time. What people lacked 200 years ago, what affects our sharpening techniques and edge shapes now are fast cutting coarse abrasives. Not so easy to flatten hard steel or an even harder stone without good coarse abrasives. When guys of Paul's or early generations talked lovingly about carborundum, this is what they loved; they were fast cutting coarse abrasives. I think a Washita stone is a dreamy fast cutting (coarse-ish) stone. Also not available everywhere.

My sandstone grinder feels like 400grit to me. And its s-l-o-w going and needs lots of pressure to cut effectively. Good example of the problems our ancestors had.

Whether our stones need to be flat, whether non-flat stones were the work of rank amateurs or pros with no practical way of correcting them is maybe another discussion.
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#72
(04-27-2022, 07:00 AM)AHill Wrote: I really don't care if Sellers doesn't prep his wood using power tools.  Plenty of WN members are hybrid woodworkers.  Maybe only a handful actually prep raw stock using only handtools.  He's a good woodworker, and I think there are things many of us can learn from his techniques.  I wonder how many of you naysayers know he has made furniture that is in the White House Oval Office?

It is not in the oval office. I think it is in the cabinet room. George W Bush owns a ranch near Waco Texas where Paul used to work. So the commission was probably giving the local boys some work. Frank Strazza was also working in Waco at that time and also claims to have worked on that furnitureas well. Frank seems to be good at veneer and inlay work. They had previously made kitchen cabinets for George Bush's "ranch".

I don't care if Paul Sellers uses power tools for stock preparation either. But when he says "I have been planing on the bench all day, every day, for over fifty years", I think he is deceiving people. 

I was taught to use the two stone method of flattening stones by a colleague in 1967. I was taught freehand sharpening in 1962 and was taught to avoid dishing a stone in the first place. I have a sandstone grinding wheel and a sandstone flat stone. My guess is you have never used these. They were not used for a polished edge. Read some historic documents.
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#73
(05-03-2022, 02:28 PM)wmickley Wrote: It is not in the oval office. I think it is in the cabinet room. George W Bush owns a ranch near Waco Texas where Paul used to work. So the commission was probably giving the local boys some work. Frank Strazza was also working in Waco at that time and also claims to have worked on that furniture as well. Frank seems to be good at veneer and inlay work. They had previously made kitchen cabinets for George Bush's "ranch".

It's just outside the Oval Office, two cabinets flanking the entrance.  He's got other pieces in the Cabinet Room.
Still Learning,

Allan Hill
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#74
(05-03-2022, 02:28 PM)wmickley Wrote: I was taught to use the two stone method of flattening stones by a colleague in 1967. I was taught freehand sharpening in 1962 and was taught to avoid dishing a stone in the first place. I have a sandstone grinding wheel and a sandstone flat stone. My guess is you have never used these. They were not used for a polished edge. Read some historic documents.

When did I ever say you got a polished edge from a grindstone or sandstone flat stone?
Still Learning,

Allan Hill
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#75
J.A.S.T.


Butter on the popcorn?
Winkgrin
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#76
“Derek Cohen Wrote:I find it revealing that Paul Sellers uses 300/600/1000 grit diamond stones. This suggests that his sharpening method is inefficient. By contrast, many (myself included) begin their sharpening sequence from 1000 grit. Paul does not end with 1000 grit, and neither does anyone else, but this is not relevant here.

The reason he begins with 300 grit is because he has to remove more steel. The long, curved bevel face has far more steel to remove than honing a micro bevel (in the case of freehanding on the face if a hollow grind). or honing a secondary micro bevel (in the case of a honing guide). In the method I prefer - honing on a hollow - the amount of steel to remove is minuscule, and it is possible to even forgo the 1000 grit.

Regards from Perth

Derek
I’m not sure that’s correct, Derek…I basically sharpen the same way he does, with the “long, curved bevel face”, and I start with a 1000-grit water stone. 1000, 5000, 10000, and then strop, and I’ve got shaving-sharp edges.
Dave Arbuckle was kind enough to create a Sketchup model of my WorkMate benchtop: http://www.arbolloco.com/sketchup/MauleSkinnerBenchtop.skp
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#77
I am happy to be corrected, but the question pondered is why then recommend starting with 300 grit each time?

Regards from Perth

Derek
Articles on furniture building, shop made tools and tool reviews at www.inthewoodshop.com
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#78
That’s a good question, Derek!

(I hear that a lot from people who have no idea what the answer is during an oral exam.)
Big Grin

If I were to hazard a guess, I’d suggest that he’s like the rest of us….there are things that are worth the time and effort to research and fine tune, and there are things that work fine so let’s just keep doing it that way.
Dave Arbuckle was kind enough to create a Sketchup model of my WorkMate benchtop: http://www.arbolloco.com/sketchup/MauleSkinnerBenchtop.skp
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#79
(04-26-2022, 09:12 PM)adamcherubini Wrote: Maybe it doesn’t matter with diamonds. In general, I try to move my tools so that I wear the stone evenly. I think you can wear, clog, or remove diamonds from diasharp plates. If you rub a tool across a surface where there are more or less diamonds, you will quickly hone that tool out of flat. So for me, I like long narrow stones. I feel I can use the whole surface better.

Should have said - when I hone a tool’s back, I have the tool all the way across the stones width. Can’t really do that with a 4” wide stone. I think 3” is wide

I think you should contact DMT about diamond plates wearing out, they just don't wear like waterstones. My plates coarse, fine, extra fine are over 20 years old and are still dead flat and sharpen my knives, chisels just fine thank you. I'm glad I bought the diamond plates so long ago as everything has increased in price dramatically. I think I paid $40 each.
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#80
(05-25-2022, 01:29 PM)maswindell Wrote: I think you should contact DMT about diamond plates wearing out, they just don't wear like waterstones. My plates coarse, fine, extra fine are over 20 years old and are still dead flat and sharpen my knives, chisels just fine thank you. I'm glad I bought the diamond plates so long ago as everything has increased in price dramatically. I think I paid $40 each.

...........
How long they last depends on several factors. Plated on diamond can be lightly concentrated..sintered diamond can be much thicker. The heavier the concentration of diamond the better. The amount of diamond usually determines the price.
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