Dovetail jig

[Bob Vaughan]

Nice looking work, Bob! Just a quick question - Is there a reason why you located the groove high on the drawer box rather than lower?

Thanks,

Doug

The location was a matter of convenience.  Set the dado for the shallowest drawer and cut them all with the same setup.
The depth of drawer is generally dictated by the center spacing of the dovetail jig.  A 1/4" plywood groove for the bottom can be covered by a dovetail if the spacing is thought out.  My jig (an old Sears) has its pins and tails on 7/8" on centers so that generally dictates drawer depth:  6", 5-1/8", 4-1/4", 3-3/8", & 2-1/2".  These constraining dimensions should be taken into consideration when planning a project with drawers.  I've got several early projects where I didn't follow those dimensions and I can clearly see the putty repair on the drawer sides.

[Bill Tindall]

That's called 'side hung'.  Its great for getting maximum width in a limited space.
I like to put the drawer groove between two dovetails.  This seems to work.  The one shown above was actually a screwup where I measured between the pins instead of the tails. There seems to be no bad effects.
Below is my preference.

Thank you for the reply.   

A comment for the on lookers........Probably because I mostly do Period reproductions or inspirations, I do not like to open a cabinet and see metal.  However, it can be practical to have adjustable shelving inside a cabinet.  I make a drilling template and drill a series of 1/4" holes on the case sides for the 1/4" commercial or home made wood shelf pins.  This approach is somewhere more labor than the metal strips but I find the appearance more calm.

[Bob Vaughan]

Thank you for the reply.   

A comment for the on lookers........Probably because I mostly do Period reproductions or inspirations, I do not like to open a cabinet and see metal.  However, it can be practical to have adjustable shelving inside a cabinet.  I make a drilling template and drill a series of 1/4" holes on the case sides for the 1/4" commercial or home made wood shelf pins.  This approach is somewhere more labor than the metal strips but I find the appearance more calm.

I often see the rows of holes in Ikea furniture that has shelves.  Line boring machines have been popular in factory furniture for decades.
As to the KV255/256 shelf track, it adjusts every 1/2" and has a great load carrying capacity whether its needed or not.  The down side of using shelf track is that the maker has to think and plan ahead.  The extra expense isn't all that much considering the labor that goes into a project.
In the 1970s I saw failures of pegs in lawyer's office remodels.

[brianwelch]

The location was a matter of convenience.  Set the dado for the shallowest drawer and cut them all with the same setup.
The depth of drawer is generally dictated by the center spacing of the dovetail jig.  A 1/4" plywood groove for the bottom can be covered by a dovetail if the spacing is thought out.  My jig (an old Sears) has its pins and tails on 7/8" on centers so that generally dictates drawer depth:  6", 5-1/8", 4-1/4", 3-3/8", & 2-1/2".  These constraining dimensions should be taken into consideration when planning a project with drawers.  I've got several early projects where I didn't follow those dimensions and I can clearly see the putty repair on the drawer sides.

Love that idea...I have a tendency to allow the drawers to slide on their bottoms, but has some limitations of the view from the front...Your work is nothing short of stellar...
Thanks

[Bill Tindall]

I often see the rows of holes in Ikea furniture that has shelves.  Line boring machines have been popular in factory furniture for decades.
As to the KV255/256 shelf track, it adjusts every 1/2" and has a great load carrying capacity whether its needed or not.  The down side of using shelf track is that the maker has to think and plan ahead.  The extra expense isn't all that much considering the labor that goes into a project.
In the 1970s I saw failures of pegs in lawyer's office remodels.

Agree that the track provides the most robust shelf support when needed.  I don't avoid using it when it is needed but it is not always needed.  I just wanted to make the point that there are alternatives when appearance counts. In these cases I use brass pins or Blackwood wood pins in small Krenov style cabinetry.

[Bob Vaughan]

Agree that the track provides the most robust shelf support when needed.  I don't avoid using it when it is needed but it is not always needed.  I just wanted to make the point that there are alternatives when appearance counts. In these cases I use brass pins or Blackwood wood pins in small Krenov style cabinetry.

Excellent cabinet.  I don't think I'd want to use shelf track on glass shelves either.

Give us a shot of the dovetail jig dovetails that would address Gregor1's question.  Discussing hand cut dovetails has been done to death on other threads.

[Bill Tindall]

Excellent cabinet.  I don't think I'd want to use shelf track on glass shelves either.

Give us a shot of the dovetail jig dovetails that would address Gregor1's question.  Discussing hand cut dovetails has been done to death on other threads.

Thank you.  

I do not understand your request.  Please clarify. 

I have not jiged dovetails in many years.  I like the flexibility of hand cut dovetails.  Last ones jiged was for a kitchen where I used the Keller which is hands down the best for through dovetails.  Before that I had one like the Porter Cable. 

The question was lumber thickness.  For practice it doesn't matter.  To practice a drawer, depends on style of drawer.  I have never used side hung drawers.  They need thicker stock than what I use for sides.  I like the appearance of a light weight drawer.  No matter the drawer size I use something about 7/16" for a side and 3/4 to 7/8" for a front. 
 
Here is another kind of shelf pin, good for light shelves where the pin may be seen.  Not my invention, Krenov's, but I make them different.

[Bob Vaughan]

Thank you.  

I do not understand your request.  Please clarify. 

I have not jiged dovetails in many years.  I like the flexibility of hand cut dovetails.  Last ones jiged was for a kitchen where I used the Keller which is hands down the best for through dovetails.  Before that I had one like the Porter Cable. 

The question was lumber thickness.  For practice it doesn't matter.  To practice a drawer, depends on style of drawer.  I have never used side hung drawers.  They need thicker stock than what I use for sides.  I like the appearance of a light weight drawer.  No matter the drawer size I use something about 7/16" for a side and 3/4 to 7/8" for a front. 
 
Here is another kind of shelf pin, good for light shelves where the pin may be seen.  Not my invention, Krenov's, but I make them different.

Slick way of making the pins.  Put a 4-jaw in the wood lathe and offset for the dowel cylinder.  A quality hand made piece of casework deserves such attention to detail.

I'm a big fan both of the dovetail jig and the 5/8" thick drawer sides and backs.  It makes for a particularly rigid box that resists racking when there are two pulls and the drawer is opened with one hand.

I figure the original poster is totally bored by now and focusing his interest elsewhere.

[Bill Tindall]

I'm a big fan both of the dovetail jig and the 5/8" thick drawer sides and backs.  It makes for a particularly rigid box that resists racking when there are two pulls and the drawer is opened with one hand.

I figure the original poster is totally bored by now and focusing his interest elsewhere.

How someone builds stuff is their business.  But if a claim is made that differs from my experience, I will comment for the benefit of anyone that may use the information in their work.  On lookers can sort out for themselves what they find useful.  

Rather than describe my experience I will report on typical drawers in English 19th century cabinetry.  Drawer sides and backs can be as thin as 3/8" and never as much as 1/2" for drawers even more than 3' wide.  (An additional drawer element, the "slip" is added to provide a larger bearing surface and a place to groove for the drawer bottom. )  The point is that with hand cut dovetails, or something that is structurally equivalent like the Lie jig, it is not necessary to have a thick side to make a rigid drawer.  Thousands of these pieces immigrated to the US to appear and be sold in antique shops, a testimony to the structural soundness of these drawers.   I have no experience with jig made drawers so I can not comment on what is essential to make one rigid.  But I have made about a dozen large chests of drawers in the last few years,  36+/-" wide.  Sides and backs are 7/16".  It would take a large force to deform an English , or my drawers.  

Given a rigid drawer, how well it works depends on meticulously fitting it to the opening.  My metric for an acceptable fit is to be able to close the drawer by pushing with one finger on an outside corner.   A well fit drawer will open effortlessly however it is pulled.  

Again, I don't care how anyone builds a drawer.  But, if someone prefers the look of a thin drawer side (you will find thin sides in most quality Period furniture) there is no reason to not make drawers thinner than 1/2", at least with the support of something equivalent to a hand cut dovetail.  

I would like to hear from the original poster, or anyone else, as to whether they have become bored learning about drawers.  If this kind of information is not useful, I will quit posting.

[Tapper]

"Knowledge is Power" is NEVER not true - enough said IMO.

Doug