SawStop: Eating Crow

[AHill]

Good for you! I remember when I worked with F-16 pilots that the chief test pilot for Lockheed stated that it only took one moment of inattention to result in a catastrophic result. He had the reputation for being the most knowledgeable F-16 pilot. It wasn't but a few years later he attempted an unnecessary maneuver without enough altitude to complete it before hitting the ground. He ejected too late and sadly died that day. A sad reminder that no matter what the skill level and the task, there's always a risk you'll do something that can result in injury.

[rwe2156]

Have it your way. If I knew what I know now about Sawstop technology and was in the market for a cabinet model tablesaw, one I planned to keep for a while and maybe forever, and wasn't in a financial position to buy a Sawstop PCS and pay cash, I'd get a loan to buy one. That's how much I believe in the technology and its prevention of a catastrophic injury - YMMV.

Doug

Totally agree. I used to be on the other side of the fence until an "incident" - (no I didn't lose any fingers)

My feeling is every newbie & every aging ww'er should beg borrow or steal, but get one.

The Consumer Product Safety Commission has issued statements about TS safety, I expect when the patents run out, you'll see the major mfg'ers incorporating flesh sensing technology, if for no other reason to stay competitive.

[Wild Turkey]

After my second visit to Kleinert and Kutz Hand Injury Center (40 miles away, fortunately!) my eldest son told my dear (now departed) wife about SS and she authorized both of the boys to initiate a campaign to get me to buy one.

Dear sons, whom I have always described as "Bigger than me and more onery than their mother!" have continued said campaign.
Result was that every time I turned on my Unisaw I cringed.

Picked up SS (with extra cartridges) this afternoon.  Now to clean out a place and install it.  Need to make them do some of the hard labor involved 

[barryvabeach]

Sure you will love it.  I had to turn off the brake sensor for an angled cut in some PT lumber this weekend,  and was thrilled to get those two cuts done, then back to having the safety.

[Troubleshooter]

I’ve said here MANY times that SawStop wasn’t for me. I work with many tools that could hurt me so it never made sense to me before to pay premium in order to make one of my tools safer. I can’t remember which forum member said it years ago but the quote is “when you swim with 10 sharks in a pool it doesn’t really help to muzzle only one”.

After not having a ts for many years (I’ve used a panel saw, track saw, big bs and big miter) in order to maximize floor space (I make big things), I finally have a project that is forcing me into finally getting another ts.

I did the research dance you all know well and realized I was wrong all this time about SawStop. It’s smart and worth it. I’m very safe but of course not perfect. All it takes is one moment of being rushed, tired or distracted. I realized the chance of that happening, together with the  unattractive possibility of loosing a part of my hand, was worth the high cost of this tool.

I just picked up a new PCS/3hp/36 with the sexy industrial mobile base. It’s way more money than I wanted to spend. I’ve been looking for used ones and folks want near-new prices up here in New England so I sold a pile of tools I haven’t used in a while and ponied up.

Isn’t it an odd thing to change your mind about stuff?

————

But I still hate the SawStop logo. So corny. Looks like a candy bar font and graphic. So I fixed it in a way that will make you all groan. I pulled off the terrible saw sticker with “SawSt” on it. The “op” are separate stickers. And although I suspect I’m in the extreme minority (I love fresh design and asymmetry is my drug of choice) I gotta say just having the red “OP” off centered with a lot of black metal negative space is a HUGE IMPROVEMENT and transforms the aesthetics from being toy-like to looking downright Euro-hip.

Im buckling my seatbelt for the tidal wave of disdain I’m about to receive. Someone pass the popcorn.

I will keep my Unisaw until some other company comes out with a competing product to the Sawstop. Ever since that crooked lawyer that invented SS tried to force other manufacturers to use his technology I have had a distaste for him that remains today.

[Tapper]

I will keep my Unisaw until some other company comes out with a competing product to the Sawstop. Ever since that crooked lawyer that invented SS tried to force other manufacturers to use his technology I have had a distaste for him that remains today.

As stated earlier, just in case you missed it:

"Not quite the complete story. Steve Gass, the inventor first offered the device to ALL the major tablesaw manufacturers for a fee. The safety device would be retrofitted to their saws. Rather than negotiate with him in good faith, they decided to stonewall him and band together in opposition to him and his invention. Having a PhD in physics AND a law degree he decided to pursue another avenue, which included government safety regulations. At this he did fail (nothing wrong with trying IMO.)

So, he then decided to design the very best tablesaw on the market, which included the safety device of course, and manufacture and market it himself, a monumental undertaking. The rest, as they say is history. Chalk one up for the good guy, again IMO. AND nothing wrong with vigorously defending your patent rights.

Never forget, this was a "game-changing" invention in tablesaw safety technology. And he came up with the idea, did all the design work and built it himself. An American success story."

Doug

[Handplanesandmore]

If not for Gass' innovative thinking and venture, the three major sliding saw manufacturers would not have developed and released their own finger saving saws.

Fingers belong to their owners. Anyone who votes against SS or wants to wait should be welcome to do so. After all, it is their fingers and their money. I refuse to work using any tablesaws that have no finger saving features.

Simon

[John Mihich]

I bought my SS shortly after I had an accident with my RAS - nearly cut my left thumb off.   I had money in my tool fund so I ordered the SS shortly after; I got rid of the RAS.  

One thing that I have to get use to is the fence.  I had an incra fence, but it has it limits also.  So I gave my TS and fence system to my Son IL.  The other thing is that the SS was 2.5 inches lower than my old Craftsman - I built a platform to raise it up.  I had cabinets all around the Craftsman and I wanted to use them again.

I will say the I am actually more careful with the SS; I'm cheap and don't want to buy another cartridge.   The other thing is I can't use my molding head cutter on the saw; I didn't use it a lot anyway.

[iclark]

As stated earlier, just in case you missed it:

"Not quite the complete story. Steve Gass, the inventor first offered the device to ALL the major tablesaw manufacturers for a fee. The safety device would be retrofitted to their saws. Rather than negotiate with him in good faith, they decided to stonewall him and band together in opposition to him and his invention. Having a PhD in physics AND a law degree he decided to pursue another avenue, which included government safety regulations. At this he did fail (nothing wrong with trying IMO.)

So, he then decided to design the very best tablesaw on the market, which included the safety device of course, and manufacture and market it himself, a monumental undertaking. The rest, as they say is history. Chalk one up for the good guy, again IMO. AND nothing wrong with vigorously defending your patent rights.

Never forget, this was a "game-changing" invention in tablesaw safety technology. And he came up with the idea, did all the design work and built it himself. An American success story."

Doug

Doug,

I am afraid that we are going to have to agree to disagree.

Your "complete story" leaves out what Gass tried to demand in payment for his concept from the saw manufacturers nor the horrendous approach of liability lawsuits that he instigated against those manufacturers. It leaves out that he has invoked copyright infringement against every other approach to finger-saving technologies. Based on what he has managed to keep out of the country, it appears that he has patents all the way down to anything involved in finger sensing or saving related to power tools.

The parallel in the computer industry was that firewire was a better technology, but USB won out because Sony wanted too much in royalties for other computer manufacturers to include firewire. The rumor was that they asked $1 per machine manufactured. Like Sony, Gass set his price and the potential licensees said that it was too high.

The sawstop apparently is a well-built, quality TS. I have no problem with anyone who puts more value on having the technology in their personal shop than feeling revulsion against Gass every time they see the saw. Commercial or school shops have to use SS or expect the SS company to help fund liability law suits against the business/school/saw_manufacturer.

I have a very nice Bosch worksite saw that I like. I was looking forward to upgrading it to the Bosch Reaxx, but Gass stopped its importation. If Gass doesn't get to follow the Disney process for eternal protection of intellectual property, then I hope that Bosch will reintroduce the Reaxx when the Gass patents expire.

Ivan

[KC]

Doug,

I am afraid that we are going to have to agree to disagree.

Your "complete story" leaves out what Gass tried to demand in payment for his concept from the saw manufacturers nor the horrendous approach of liability lawsuits that he instigated against those manufacturers. It leaves out that he has invoked copyright infringement against every other approach to finger-saving technologies. Based on what he has managed to keep out of the country, it appears that he has patents all the way down to anything involved in finger sensing or saving related to power tools.

The parallel in the computer industry was that firewire was a better technology, but USB won out because Sony wanted too much in royalties for other computer manufacturers to include firewire. The rumor was that they asked $1 per machine manufactured. Like Sony, Gass set his price and the potential licensees said that it was too high.

The sawstop apparently is a well-built, quality TS. I have no problem with anyone who puts more value on having the technology in their personal shop than feeling revulsion against Gass every time they see the saw. Commercial or school shops have to use SS or expect the SS company to help fund liability law suits against the business/school/saw_manufacturer.

I have a very nice Bosch worksite saw that I like. I was looking forward to upgrading it to the Bosch Reaxx, but Gass stopped its importation. If Gass doesn't get to follow the Disney process for eternal protection of intellectual property, then I hope that Bosch will reintroduce the Reaxx when the Gass patents expire.

Ivan

This topic is the definition of 'dead horse'.... but just curious... how much did he want from the other manufacturers per unit?  Was it $100?  Was it proportionate to what Sony wanted for Firewire?  

I don't think I was one of the rabid folks who said 'I'll never buy one because blah blah...'.  I do remember being a bit disappointed at the lawsuits.  BUT, he had the technology and the patents... and he's almost certainly not the first guy to use 'the system' to his advantage.