Miter saw blade

[Cabinet Monkey]

Are there any miter saws with better dust “containment”?

Pretty sure that that answer is also no.

Not correct.

The festool Kapex has better than better dust collection.   It's big $$$ takes metric blades that have limited availability and has(had) a history of motors burning up which festool initially claimed was user error only to "improve" it after the groundswell of bad pub.  

The Milwaukee 12" slider also has good collection, but it's huge, weighs a ton, and you can't really test drive one in most parts of the country.

The Makita 1019 / 1219 have good collection too.  Not quite as good as kapex, but they cost 1/3 and take blades available at every hardware store and home improvement center in America.   Some users report mis-aligned rails which can be adjusted , but who wants to do that on a new saw ?



I'm with Johnny though - use any mitersaw you want and place it in a collection box with a pair of 4" or a 6" dust port connected to a collection system and you'll have excellent containment.

[iclark]

The Makita 1019 / 1219 have good collection too.  Not quite as good as kapex, but they cost 1/3 and take blades available at every hardware store and home improvement center in America.   Some users report mis-aligned rails which can be adjusted , but who wants to do that on a new saw ?



I'm with Johnny though - use any mitersaw you want and place it in a collection box with a pair of 4" or a 6" dust port connected to a collection system and you'll have excellent containment.

It is not as safety critical for miter saws as it is for RAS or sliding miter saws, but is still a very good idea to only use negative-rake blades. You may have trouble finding them in some stores. Sadly, you may even have some trouble finding someone working in the store who understands what you need and why it is important.

[Handplanesandmore]

The festool Kapex has better than better dust collection.   It's big $$$ takes metric blades that have limited availability and has(had) a history of motors burning up which festool initially claimed was user error only to "improve" it after the groundswell of bad pub.  

Ya know what they say about repeating a lie a thousand times. Myths behave the same way.

The no. of complaints reported about the motor problem can be counted in both hands or three in the festool forum. If the smoking motors were indeed serious, we'd have already seen a class suit, given the lworld we live in.

Can someone please tell me the % of failures over sales? 1 out 100, 1,000 or 10,000?

I personally know a member at one of the largest festool dealers in the country who handles festool service and repairs for over 12 years. He has dealt with the kapex repairs but none about the so called smoking motors. The #1 issue? Abusive uses and lack of basic maintenance. The saws came in from the tradespeople were the worst. He could see dust filled up inside the sawhead. Many cords were yanked, and broke at the exit point. People let the sawhead spring hard back after their cuts as if the saw was designed to be abused.

Now when a company known for improving things released a better motor, people accused it of covering up!!!


Simon

[Cabinet Monkey]

Ya know what they say about repeating a lie a thousand times. Myths behave the same way.

The no. of complaints reported about the motor problem can be counted in both hands or three in the festool forum. If the smoking motors were indeed serious, we'd have already seen a class suit, given the lworld we live in.

Can someone please tell me the % of failures over sales? 1 out 100, 1,000 or 10,000?

I personally know a member at one of the largest festool dealers in the country who handles festool service and repairs for over 12 years. He has dealt with the kapex repairs but none about the so called smoking motors. The #1 issue? Abusive uses and lack of basic maintenance. The saws came in from the tradespeople were the worst. He could see dust filled up inside the sawhead. Many cords were yanked, and broke at the exit point. People let the sawhead spring hard back after their cuts as if the saw was designed to be abused.

Now when a company known for improving things released a better motor, people accused it of covering up!!!


Simon

Spoken like a true, dyed in the wool fanboy corp. apologist. 



1. If you were remotely in touch with reality , you’d know TTS / Festool doesn’t release detailed sales figures let alone failure rates. 

2. You’re almost certainly in the UK where I’m guessing the majority of the units sold are 220v models.   It’s was the 110v motors in the USA that were the issue primarily .  No USA dealers service festools that I’m aware of.  Then there’s the curiosity of the UK “saftey recall” on Kapex motors because of potential to catch fire.  That’s not an improvement either - it’s basic requirements for all tools. 

3. Festool corp. was on record as saying first - there’s no problem here. Then they backpedaled and said people were using their saws improperly by cutting thin material

Then then they started offering out of warranty repairs.   Then they all of sudden had an “improved” motor.  For what end? There wasn’t anything wrong with it remember , and Festool isn’t in the habit of “improving” motors except to go to brushless and or battery powered.  - and then it’s almost always a new tool rather than a same model improvement. 

4. Clearly you don’t understand the nature and economics of “class action” lawsuits.  They are driven by the attorneys who see a large payday at the end of the road.  The “class” has to be large enough and the stakes high enough for them to front the expenses of the suit.  The number of festool mitersaws sold just doesn’t reach that territory.  An individual plaintiff would have to pay his own way and the initial filing fees would be half as much as the saw was worth , so that would be a financial loser no matter how you looked at it.  

5. With the price of that saw and Festool’s reputation any motor related failures should have been met with a swift replacement instead of stonewalling, then blaming the customer.  If they were truly in the right they would have done absolutely nothing instead of redesigning a good motor. What they did was cause themselves a black eye in the attempt to save money and then they still had all the direct costs of dealing with the flawed motors in the end.

It’s pretty obvious Festool’s designers / engineers didn’t quite get it right on the kapex motors no matter the voltage or end use country.   That’s not the end of the world, people and companies make mistakes.  But when you hold yourself out as being the best , bla bla, bla, you got to own your mistakes and fix them.  Festool’s SOP is to deny theirs a problem and or blame the user.  People expect that from an el cheapo brand but not a market leader.  And therein, lies the problem.

[Handplanesandmore]

As a festool fanboy (not!), I proudly defend the truth from the myth!


1. If you were remotely in touch with reality , you’d know TTS / Festool doesn’t release detailed sales figures let alone failure rates. 

So you agree that neither you nor anyone who asserts that the kapex eb has a huge smoking motor has any quantifiable data to support your claim.

This is enough a response to your whole post to confirm that repeating a myth often enough does make people believe it!

ps. I'm not talking about the 220v kapex. All kapex repairs I mentioned in my last post were 110v based.

Anyone who befriends a local festool dealer please ask about the kapex repairs they handle, and see what they tell you. Don't trust everything you see or hear...use your own judgment.

Smoking motors? Based on my contact, none; based on my causal count of the festool forum reports, 10 or 12?

Simon

[Cabinet Monkey]

As a festool fanboy (not!), I proudly defend the truth from the myth!

Simon

So those 10 -12 on the FoG are all liars ?  Festool's reaction to the situation wasn't/ isn't mythical.  Denying it (same as you) then "improving"  (fixing) the product only re-enforces that there was a problem.

Again, in the USA (where the issue first cropped up) dealers don't service festools.  That means they don't "handle" them !

No , apology for the 220v recall in the UK ?      Ignoring it won't magically turn that into a myth for you




Bottom line is kapex had a motor issue in the USA (and other places) no matter how much you or they want ignore or forget about it.  Wishing it wasn't so or deflecting the issue doesn't make it not so.


guess you think this guy is a lair too ?

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/thre...ex.396794/

[Handplanesandmore]

So those 10 -12 on the FoG are all liars ? 

You can do better than using figures out of context. 10 - 12 is the number I could find in the festool forum who had reported about the motor trouble, compared to over 60,000 members.

Why did you think they are liars?

See, I'm quoting you out of context.

Motor problems did happen to some. Some even showed pictures and repair bills in their discussions. But they were so small in number (none according to my local festool dealer I spoke to -- others are more than welcome to check theirs and share their findings here).

You can continue to believe in what you want to believe in -- without the support of any objective or quantifiable data. Yes, repeating a lie often enough by a certain guy made him trustworthy in the eye of his followers!

Oh, I saw a few guys complaining about their new sawstop, so I guess sawstop must be having a big problem too!

Simon

[MarkWells]

Are there any miter saws with better dust “containment”?

I have a 10" Dewalt non-sliding compound miter saw (DW713) and a Makita 80 tooth blade.  The blade only cost $33 in 2019 and works very well.  I try to mostly use hand tools, so I only pull out the miter saw if I need to do a repetitive cut that would be much faster by machine.  I keep the saw under my workbench and when I need to use it, I setup the folding Dewalt Compact Miter Saw Stand outside. 

It seems to me that nearly all the sawdust goes out the port in the back of the saw.  I have setup my dust collector before to connect to that port and it's not perfect collection, but the vast majority of the dust got collected.  The hard part is getting the dust collector to connect to the port.

On the other hand, two of my friends who use their miter saws inside the shop have a fabric shroud behind the saw which they say helps.

Mark

[Tony Z]

I have a 10" Dewalt non-sliding compound miter saw (DW713) and a Makita 80 tooth blade.  The blade only cost $33 in 2019 and works very well.  I try to mostly use hand tools, so I only pull out the miter saw if I need to do a repetitive cut that would be much faster by machine.  I keep the saw under my workbench and when I need to use it, I setup the folding Dewalt Compact Miter Saw Stand outside. 

It seems to me that nearly all the sawdust goes out the port in the back of the saw.  I have setup my dust collector before to connect to that port and it's not perfect collection, but the vast majority of the dust got collected.  The hard part is getting the dust collector to connect to the port.

On the other hand, two of my friends who use their miter saws inside the shop have a fabric shroud behind the saw which they say helps.

Mark

Thanks Mark. Same saw I have. I need to work on the dust port and fab a shroud.

[MarkWells]

Thanks Mark.  Same saw I have.  I need to work on the dust port and fab a shroud.

The connector I tried for the dust port is this:  WoodRiver 4" to 1" Flexible Multi-Step Reducer Dust Collection Fitting.  It worked short term, but is heavy compared to the tiny port, so it probably wouldn't work long term.

Mark