Clearvue cyclone question for TS blade guard

[davco]

Is the suction so great on the Clearvue cyclones that something like chicken wire or a coarse
mesh should be installed in the blade guard of the table saw to prevent cut-offs from being sucked in 
and damaging the impeller?

[fredhargis]

It's a split answer, the CV will suck cutoffs into the piping...but they won't damage the impeller. If they get to the cyclone they will drop out into the dust bin after rattling around in the cyclone body. . More often what i see is thel onger pieces get hung up on the overblade basket I have and fall out when the CV is turned off. So ....no, you don't need a wire guard to protect the impeller. What has happened to me was that the suction though the overblade basket was so strong it actually lifted the front of my insert up a little, and the work piece would get caught on it. I made an eccentric screw and installed it, I twist it to lock the insert down.

[davco]

It's a split answer, the CV will suck cutoffs into the piping...but they won't damage the impeller. If they get to the cyclone they will drop out into the dust bin after rattling around in the cyclone body. . More often what i see is thel onger pieces get hung up on the overblade basket I have and fall out when the CV is turned off. So ....no, you don't need a wire guard to protect the impeller. What has happened to me was that the suction though the overblade basket was so strong it actually lifted the front of my insert up a little, and the work piece would get caught on it. I made an eccentric screw and installed it, I twist it to lock the insert down.

Thanks, good to know, now I have to stop procrastinating switching out the old system with the Clearvue. 

I've had it partially assembled downstairs but not in my shop yet.  I did run the 30amp circuit and wire, but still have to install all of the 6" spiral piping.

[MarkWells]

This has not happened to me, but I have read you need to be careful about sucking up rags.  The rag is a shape that doesn't fall out of the cyclone well, so it can get sucked into the impeller.  Then you have to disassemble the cyclone to get the rag out.

A week ago I sucked up a rag and got everything shutdown just in the nick of time.

   

Mark

[davco]

This has not happened to me, but I have read you need to be careful about sucking up rags.  The rag is a shape that doesn't fall out of the cyclone well, so it can get sucked into the impeller.  Then you have to disassemble the cyclone to get the rag out.

A week ago I sucked up a rag and got everything shutdown just in the nick of time.



Mark

Thanks Mark.

How are you guys liking your Clearvue cyclones?

[MarkWells]

Thanks Mark.

How are you guys liking your Clearvue cyclones?

I have had my ClearVue operational a couple of months.  My shop is definitely much cleaner.

I installed it in a separate building.

   

The exhaust comes out the back of the building.

   

The building is well insulated and air sealed.  To keep the noise down further, I transitioned the cyclone exhaust to an 8" adjustable elbow, then a 8" to 10" transition, and then 10" insulated duct that has a 180 degree bend.

   

With the door to the cyclone building closed and the cyclone on with all the blast gates open, I measure about 62 dB using the NIOSH cell phone app about 10 feet from the exhaust.  On the other side of the building, by the door, it is only 58 dB.  I was really concerned about the noise, but that has not been an issue at all.

To measure airflow, I attached a 5' section of 10" duct to the exhaust.  I drilled two perpendicular holes in the middle of the duct, and I used a Testo 405i hot wire anemometer.  Sticking the probe in the duct and pulling it out slowly, several times, I was able to get consistent readings.  I think this method over samples the middle of the duct some, but it should be relatively close.

   

With all the blast gates open I measured 1104 CFM.  With one 6" blast gate open, not connected to a machine, I measured 918 CFM.   If I connect my bandsaw, which has two 4" ports and not nearly enough open area to let air into the cabinet, I measured 539 CFM.

Honestly I was expected a little higher numbers, but it really, really sucks air.  On my project list is to remove the insulated flex duct on the exhaust and see how that impacts air flow.

Mark

[MichaelS]

(that's a fantastic setup!) It could also be that there is too little intake capability, Mark. I had a clearvue while I was in Austin and it was a solid unit. Louder than my previous Oneida pro, but was able to perform similarly (aesthetics and cost aside, they are very comparable machines.)

The tricky bit is it's not just suction, but also the WC (static water pressure the system can exert) and that requires silly expensive equipment for such a purpose. Generally, these systems run in the 9.5-12" WC range at those CFM. I'd wager if you simply opened another port farther down the pipe, you'd get more suction at the open gate at the bandsaw. Fluid Dynamics and mechanical engineering is seriously cool, and a lot further down the physical math path than I pursued in college, LOL.

Just remember that you'll likely want some ambient cleaner for finishing / clearing the finer particles that float in the air for hours afterwards.

Michael

[fredhargis]

I find mine is a huge step up in separation from the one I had, but it is in the shop and not vented out...so the noise is, well, awful. In my case I'm always wearing ear protection anyway when running the big tools so it's not all that big a deal. This has the 16" impeller, and the dust pickup is quite amazing...it conquered every tool I have except the miter saw, so it (the miter saw) was retired to storage and gets pulled out for home improvement stuff. When I bought mine the steel version hadn't been introduced yet, I wish it had I can't help but think it may be a little quieter. The other thing I might have done was stick with the 15" impeller....for the same reason.

[davco]

I have had my ClearVue operational a couple of months.  My shop is definitely much cleaner.

I installed it in a separate building.



The exhaust comes out the back of the building.



The building is well insulated and air sealed.  To keep the noise down further, I transitioned the cyclone exhaust to an 8" adjustable elbow, then a 8" to 10" transition, and then 10" insulated duct that has a 180 degree bend.



With the door to the cyclone building closed and the cyclone on with all the blast gates open, I measure about 62 dB using the NIOSH cell phone app about 10 feet from the exhaust.  On the other side of the building, by the door, it is only 58 dB.  I was really concerned about the noise, but that has not been an issue at all.

To measure airflow, I attached a 5' section of 10" duct to the exhaust.  I drilled two perpendicular holes in the middle of the duct, and I used a Testo 405i hot wire anemometer.  Sticking the probe in the duct and pulling it out slowly, several times, I was able to get consistent readings.  I think this method over samples the middle of the duct some, but it should be relatively close.



With all the blast gates open I measured 1104 CFM.  With one 6" blast gate open, not connected to a machine, I measured 918 CFM.   If I connect my bandsaw, which has two 4" ports and not nearly enough open area to let air into the cabinet, I measured 539 CFM.

Honestly I was expected a little higher numbers, but it really, really sucks air.  On my project list is to remove the insulated flex duct on the exhaust and see how that impacts air flow.

Mark

How well does the remote work with the DC in an outbuilding?

[jteneyck]

(that's a fantastic setup!) It could also be that there is too little intake capability, Mark. I had a clearvue while I was in Austin and it was a solid unit. Louder than my previous Oneida pro, but was able to perform similarly (aesthetics and cost aside, they are very comparable machines.)

The tricky bit is it's not just suction, but also the WC (static water pressure the system can exert) and that requires silly expensive equipment for such a purpose. Generally, these systems run in the 9.5-12" WC range at those CFM. I'd wager if you simply opened another port farther down the pipe, you'd get more suction at the open gate at the bandsaw. Fluid Dynamics and mechanical engineering is seriously cool, and a lot further down the physical math path than I pursued in college, LOL.

Just remember that you'll likely want some ambient cleaner for finishing / clearing the finer particles that float in the air for hours afterwards. 

Michael

You can measure the static pressure by making your own simple water manometer for the cost of a 6 ft long piece of clear plastic tubing, not much.  Bend it into a U-tube, affix it to a piece of wood, and add some colored water.  If your DC system can pull 11" of water then make sure the length of the U-tube is greater than that.  




Drill a hole just large enough for the hose into the side of the duct at the location you want to know the static pressure and insert one end of the hose into the middle of the duct, keeping it perpendicular to the duct.  The other end remains open to atmosphere.  In a DC system the water will move up on the side being measured.  Measure the difference between the water levels the tube.  That's the static pressured in inches of water.  

John