opening a can of worms

[Timberwolf]

That is what my original post is about. If the frog on the Baily planes is just tightened down enough to keep the frog from lifting, it can be moved forward or backwards without touching the blade setting. Removing the lever cap, blade and chip beaker to access the screws so the frog can be moved is just a wives tale. Rob Cosman is good at ay keeping the tail alive. He makes money from Woodcraft for plane sales. Most get the frog setting where they like and it is never changed, but it is easier to fine tune your plane using my method. You have nothing to loose, because you can always tighten it as tight as possible as you can at anytime. Like I said I have a plane collection and it has taken several years to get where I am. I plan on having a flat bottom and a corrugated bottom in each size. It is not yet complete. But each has its own mouth setting so I don't have to change the frog settings. The most used sizes I have are the $5 and #6. So actually I only need two of these sizes. But there is a difference between need and want. 

If you try what I have written about, write and let us all know what you found out.

Tom

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I have an old Stanley tool catalog around here somewhere, with a photo of a Stanley workman "flattening" the sole of a plane by holding it in his hands, against a large belt grinder...so we know just how "flat" the soles were when they left the factory..


My opinion...There is no way we are getting our planes "flat"...but we are getting our planes "flat enough"... As Tom pointed out, time is best spent on learning to sharpen...

Good post, Tom..

[tablesawtom]

.....................
I have an old Stanley tool catalog around here somewhere, with a photo of a Stanley workman "flattening" the sole of a plane by holding it in his hands, against a large belt grinder...so we know just how "flat" the soles were when they left the factory..


My opinion...There is no way we are getting our planes "flat"...but we are getting our planes "flat enough"... As Tom pointed out, time is best spent on learning to sharpen...

Good post, Tom..

Nicely stated. The belt sander removed the milling machine marks. When building draw die the sanding and polishing marks need to be in the direction of the draw, otherwise the metal can't flow and the surface will cause the metal to stretch. In the same way if one is shining up the bottom of a plane the final sanding marks should be from front to back that way there will be less drag on the plane.

I know a lot of people sharpen drills on a belt sander, but I have never had to good of success with that. when the drill or even plane blade comes in contact with the belt and is pushed against the plalent the incoming portent of the belt comes over the cutting edge therefore blunting it. I always use a bench grinder to sharpen drill bit for this reason. And I am always pulling the blade back toward me and never pushing the blade forward where I can dig into the stone therefore dulling it. 

And Bandit571 also made a statement about a plane needing a thicker aftermarket blade and he also used the term wives tail. The irons produced by Stanley have worked from the late 1865 to present and will continue until much later when we are all gone. Just marketing getting us into thinking that we need to spend more money to help the planes short falls. And the real short fall is having a sharp blade. Which I know for a fact that Steve has really mastered. To me it rates right up there with I need a $100 and change for a red square that I might use once a year.

Tom

[Timberwolf]

Nicely stated. The belt sander removed the milling machine marks. When building draw die the sanding and polishing marks need to be in the direction of the draw, otherwise the metal can't flow and the surface will cause the metal to stretch. In the same way if one is shining up the bottom of a plane the final sanding marks should be from front to back that way there will be less drag on the plane.

I know a lot of people sharpen drills on a belt sander, but I have never had to good of success with that. when the drill or even plane blade comes in contact with the belt and is pushed against the plalent the incoming portent of the belt comes over the cutting edge therefore blunting it. I always use a bench grinder to sharpen drill bit for this reason. And I am always pulling the blade back toward me and never pushing the blade forward where I can dig into the stone therefore dulling it. 

And Bandit571 also made a statement about a plane needing a thicker aftermarket blade and he also used the term wives tail. The irons produced by Stanley have worked from the late 1865 to present and will continue until much later when we are all gone. Just marketing getting us into thinking that we need to spend more money to help the planes short falls. And the real short fall is having a sharp blade. Which I know for a fact that Steve has really mastered. To me it rates right up there with I need a $100 and change for a red square that I might use once a year.

Tom

.........................
I learned to sharpen drills {and other tools} freehand 75yrs ago on a grinding wheel and that's the way I choose to do it but I can also sharpen them on a belt grinder..it just seems more "awkward" that way. I have a Drill Doctor but freehand sharpening takes about one tenth of the time required by the DD...As for belt grinding, I like the rotation of the belt to be turning away from the cutting edge. I get much better control that way.

[CStan]

That is what my original post is about. If the frog on the Baily planes is just tightened down enough to keep the frog from lifting, it can be moved forward or backwards without touching the blade setting. Removing the lever cap, blade and chip beaker to access the screws so the frog can be moved is just a wives tale. Rob Cosman is good at ay keeping the tail alive. He makes money from Woodcraft for plane sales. Most get the frog setting where they like and it is never changed, but it is easier to fine tune your plane using my method. You have nothing to loose, because you can always tighten it as tight as possible as you can at anytime. Like I said I have a plane collection and it has taken several years to get where I am. I plan on having a flat bottom and a corrugated bottom in each size. It is not yet complete. But each has its own mouth setting so I don't have to change the frog settings. The most used sizes I have are the $5 and #6. So actually I only need two of these sizes. But there is a difference between need and want. 

If you try what I have written about, write and let us all know what you found out.

Tom

I definitely don't shower-down on the frog screws now.  I'll try what you're suggesting.

[C. in Indy]

I think somebody mentioned frog position.

I regularly move the frog forward in order to close the mouth - moved past the point it would form a continuous ramp with the sole.  I've never experienced anything close to chatter because of it.  I've relegated this whole thing to Old Wives' Tales and viral overthinking because that's exactly what it is.  Anybody reluctant to move the frog in order to produce a more closed mouth -- you have virtually nothing to worry about.

Yeah, that was me!   And my wife does predate me by [redacted] years.

[CStan]

That is what my original post is about. If the frog on the Baily planes is just tightened down enough to keep the frog from lifting, it can be moved forward or backwards without touching the blade setting. Removing the lever cap, blade and chip beaker to access the screws so the frog can be moved is just a wives tale. Rob Cosman is good at ay keeping the tail alive. He makes money from Woodcraft for plane sales. Most get the frog setting where they like and it is never changed, but it is easier to fine tune your plane using my method. You have nothing to loose, because you can always tighten it as tight as possible as you can at anytime. Like I said I have a plane collection and it has taken several years to get where I am. I plan on having a flat bottom and a corrugated bottom in each size. It is not yet complete. But each has its own mouth setting so I don't have to change the frog settings. The most used sizes I have are the $5 and #6. So actually I only need two of these sizes. But there is a difference between need and want. 

If you try what I have written about, write and let us all know what you found out.

Tom

Paul Sellers shows leaving the screws loose enough to be able to move the frog during use.

Nothing new under the Sun I suppose.

[tablesawtom]

.........................
I learned to sharpen drills {and other tools} freehand 75yrs ago on a grinding wheel and that's the way I choose to do it but I can also sharpen them on a belt grinder..it just seems more "awkward" that way. I have a Drill Doctor but freehand sharpening takes about one tenth of the time required by the DD...As for belt grinding, I like the rotation of the belt to be turning away from the cutting edge. I get much better control that way.

Yes, I sharpen drill bits free hand. I have a grill gage and it is set at 59 degrees so I can keep both cutting edges at the same angle and length. If one flute is longer the drill will drill an oversized hole.. Yes you are correct in sharpening with the belt rotating away from  the cutting edge. And I am sure you have one but most people do not belt sander that will turn backwards and one needs to have a platen backing up the belt. Usually I see belt sander being used is when the length of the cutting edge is longer than the grinding wheel is wide. It can get a little tricky sharpening a 1 1/2 inch drill bit in a 5 inch bench grinder. Could write a small book on this.

But this is kind of getting off topic so maybe we should start a new thread about the pros and cons of sharpening on a belt sander.

Tom