Work Smoother infill Build begins - need advice!
#31
  Re: Re: Work Smoother infill Build begins - need advice! by JesseM (How are you planning...)
How are you planning are fixing the infill to the body? ... just epoxied in place.
Something I've wondered about with epoxy: I've used it, and liquid hide glue, and haven't had any issues but have read that some people have had repeated instances of epoxied infills popping loose. I suspect heat as epoxies (at least the one I use) undo around 150°-200F and a metal plane sole can get hot enough to melt wax. Maybe something like JBWeld might be the ticket.
Craig D Does sawing logs count as woodwork? My blog
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#32
  Re: Re: Work Smoother infill Build begins - need advice! by DallasStarter ([blockquote]Craig D ...)
I admire your ability to think things through and plan (honest) but, for me, that would be too much thinking (and this coming from programmer). Also, the open ends of Konrad's and Raney's planes, I think, make things a bit easier as you can slide the infill out the end as you fit it, then trim it.

Me, I'd make a simplifying assumption - over-stuffing means you don't really care how well the infill fits as long as things are tight where you can see them (I seem to remember seeing some Norris & Spiers that were pretty sloppy where you couldn't see them). So I would make the infill a loose fit (when it is in the body & slide towards the iron) and cut the lip high. Slide back & scribe the the side wall, fit, chop the bottom, repeat until the fit is good. Then cut the ramp and shape. If the fit is looser than you like, shim or pot in epoxy.

Oh yeah - regarding wood movement/shrinkage. It happens. No matter what (unless infused with plastic?). To prevent this from moving the sidewalls, you can put a tube/rod through the infill and attach the sidewall to the rod, not the wood, and let the wood do its thing (see Brese, Holtey). Another reason for a loose fitting infill.
Craig D Does sawing logs count as woodwork? My blog
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#33
  Re: Re: Work Smoother infill Build begins - need advice! by Craig D (I admire your abilit...)
Craig D said:


I admire your ability to think things through and plan (honest) but, for me, that would be too much thinking (and this coming from programmer).




Ha! Agreed! But honestly the intention of the fore-planning was to prevent thinking during the build. All too often I'll depend on my ability to adjust on the fly, and while that sometimes and even often times works fine for building furniture, I knew that it would be death for trying to do an overstuffed infill. And while I can definitely envision how much easier it would be to do a non-overstuffed version, even with a handle, I can't stop myself from thinking, "why not at least try?" (Even if the answer is - I'll probably fail).
We see I guess! But the intention is to seat the infill well while also shooting for tight transitions. I'm interested in function first and appearance second, and prioritizing tight transitions means leaving the infill unsupported except at the shoulders of the overstuff. So for me, that won't be the priority - the stability of the bed will.

I am strongly considering borrowing Holtey's top-channel level cap concept though. Seems ideal is multiple ways, not the least of which being it would be possibly to adjust the meeting of the lever cap to the blade at the pivot, instead of at the point of contact with the blade. Not to mention you're not tasked with drilling a perfect though hole, something I wouldn't trust my drill press to do to this level of accuracy.

As for securing the infills to the casting. . . I was thinking epoxy. But I guess I could envision bronze screws piened and filed in effort to make them invisible. But could I match the color of the bronze in the casting? I'd be concerned about a but of different colored spots winking at me for the next 40 years. . .
You don't need a parachute to go skydiving unless you want to do it more than once. . .
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#34
  Re: Re: Work Smoother infill Build begins - need advice! by DallasStarter ([blockquote]Craig D ...)
I am strongly considering borrowing Holtey's top-channel level cap concept though
I've made one and it works well but have serious problems coming up with a cap design I like. But I like pegs with matching cut outs in the cap, just don't want to machine them.

I'd be concerned about a but of different colored spots winking at me
I'm thinking it is very hard to get a lasting color match - I've seen them on all levels of planes. You need identical alloys, perfect piening (adhesives/brazing leave visible lines) and no oxidation. I've only done one plane where you can't see the pins (after four years) and that was stainless steel with stainless pins (well you can find one of the four if you know where to look).
Make it a feature!
Craig D Does sawing logs count as woodwork? My blog
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#35
  Re: Re: Work Smoother infill Build begins - need advice! by Craig D (I am strongly consid...)
Thats good to hear. I was hunting for some manganese bronze rods today and didn't find anything. I'd definitely be happy skipping that step and focus on all the other steps

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#36
  Re: Re: Work Smoother infill Build begins - need advice! by JesseM (Thats good to hear. ...)
Jamestown Distributors have silicon bronze rod down to a 1/4". Not sure how much difference there is between SB and Mang. bronze.

Phil
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#37
  Re: Re: Work Smoother infill Build begins - need advice! by DallasStarter ([blockquote]Craig D ...)
Well, I have a few hours in the shop and was able to make some progress on a trial fitting using the procedure I outline earlier. Here's a few pics:

After completing the test block used to determine the measurements for the placement of the mouth, I laminated some cherry and machined it into a billet. Bed was cut into that while still square and then it was placed on the sole template for flush trimming. I took readings on smallest wall thickness at seven places along the rear infill's area and determined the best thickness to shoot for with the rabbet that would not be cut along the bottom. This is cut at the same height as the rear rabbet because that it the lowest part of the casting. Fortunately it provides plenty of bearing surface for continuing the rabbet to the shoulder lines with a chisel and judicious paring. Anyway, here's the blank fresh off the router table's rabbeting procedure (fence set with two test cuts and calipers):




It bears mentioning that by this point I'd already laid in the shoulder lines for the overstuff. This required the creation of side templates. I ended up using a $3 "fire extinguisher here -->" sign from Lowes because it was the perfect mix of flexible but rigid. And because it was thin steel I could file it to close dimension if my cutting with the sheers was not up to snuff. I used layout fluid and a carbide scribe to lay out the pattern, which was wedged up to the side of the casting from the inside for maximum accuracy:



[imagehttp://farm6.staticflickr.com/5457/9715055076_51432a229d_b.jpg[/image]

I transferred the pattern to the blank by clamping a flat reference to the bottom of the blank so I could concentrate on getting the back lined up.




Then set in the line with light touch and marking knife followed by heavier strokes to set it in Then a little chisel work to extend the rabbet to the lines:






At this point we have a very tight friction fit at the front and the back, but material must be removed to accommodate variances in wall thickness and the rough inside corners of the casting. I did this with a combination of shoulder plane, chisel, and file. As you can see, it doesn't take much to get it down in there and eventually nearly seated.






However, I was getting interference that was causing the blank not to seat all the way into the back where it should have. You can see the small difference in this picture of the mating of the back


(note, you can see here what happens to a corner when you screw up at the demon router table!)

After trying removing wood from a number of possible places, I finally figured out that it was the lateral rear corners that were preventing full seating. This is because the wall thickness changes considerably in this corner and I did not notice it when taking my readings. Two chisel cuts and we were home, but the next difficulty was revealed:




As you can see, the meeting of the infill with the shoulders leaves much to be desired. After some examination, I believe I have pinpointed the root cause. Because the inside corners are rough, the patterns sit more on the roughness (think: cove) than all the way down at the lowest point as would be allowed were the casting to have clean and square inside corners. By messing with the location of the pattern, the template, when scribed to the blank, yields a gap equivalent to the offset created by the roughness of the inside corner. The larger offset closer to the ramp may be worsened by something else so I will have to continue to investigate.

I believe there are two ways to counter this. One would be to make up for the offset by shimming out the blank (but not the pattern) from the reference during transfer. A 16th would probably do it, allowing the shoulders to be scribed "too low" which is in fact right where we want them since the pattern couldn't seat in the casting perfectly to begin with. The other option (which I would have if I was fitting an actual infill and not this trial piece) would be to plane 1/16" off the bottom of the infill to effectively bring the shoulders down. This would actually be reasonably easy, as one could use a marking gauge to indicate the amount needing removal and simply plane to the line as one would when bringing a board to final thickness.

Unfortunately, we're getting close to a deal on the house, so I may soon have to pack up my shop for storage until perhaps February. To be continued!

Reed
You don't need a parachute to go skydiving unless you want to do it more than once. . .
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#38
  Re: Re: Work Smoother infill Build begins - need advice! by DallasStarter (Well, I have a few h...)
This is looking great, Reed. Thanks for the update.

And, have a good move!
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#39
  Re: Re: Work Smoother infill Build begins - need advice! by KlausK. (The begin looks good...)
KlausK. said:


The begin looks good...


The enterprise is ambitious though. An overstuffed infill plane is tricky to make. Your's is even more difficult since the plane body is closed at the front and at the rear and because that all isn't difficult enough, the body is coffin shaped additionally. I don't think that more hurdles are possible.

If I had to attack this task, I'd go with a fake out of cheap wood just to find out, where the main issues will be. It might be a good idea to make precise patterns of the bottom area of the body and of the sidelines as well.

I'm really curious about the progress, it will be more than interesting to follow this thread.

Good Luck
Klaus




Hi Klaus. Just a thought bubble .Could Plaster of Paris be used to form a 3d shape to the inside of the metal body. This mould could then be sliced into shapes and used as templates for the wooden infills.

The height of the mould could be increased if required by using a thin mdf or similar, adhered to the outer casting with double sided carpet tape.

Stewie;
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#40
  Re: Re: Work Smoother infill Build begins - need advice! by swagman ([blockquote]KlausK. ...)
Reed, very nice work. I made a smoother from St. James Bay Tool Co years ago and spent a lot of time trying to get that overstuffed line to match up with the shoulder of the plane, and at the same time, get the bottom of the blank to rest on the sole of the plane body. Just like you did, it was a lot of pare a little, fit, repeat. I can't offer much in the way of advice, but did want to point out that when you look at old infills, while many have overstuffed infills, some don't, and you can understand why they removed that feature because it certainly changes the amount of time needed to finish construction. These are both Spiers planes


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