Two Guys in a Garage Folding Backs
#21
Leif thank you for the great review, knowing of Dom and the products he has been selling I am sure these backs will be awesome. I know I will be buying a couple in the future as I want to try my hand at making a couple different saws and not break the bank as I experiment .

Steve
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#22
Is J-B Weld ok for fitting a slotted brass back to the saw plate? Loctite 609 is the real deal, but with shipping, the price is almost $20.00
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#23
Mike Brady said:


Is J-B Weld ok for fitting a slotted brass back to the saw plate? Loctite 609 is the real deal, but with shipping, the price is almost $20.00




Why not just hammer the slot closed just a bit and let friction do the work. Then if it ever needs to come off again, you don't have to use heat or other weapons of mass destruction to remove the back.
Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things. -- G. Carlin
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#24
What Rob said...

However, J.B. Weld is good stuff and will work, but it's kind of thick, but I'm sure you can stuff it into the slot.
Catchalater,
Marv


I did then what I knew how to do. Now that I know better, I do better.”
― Maya Angelou

I'm working toward my PHD.  (Projects Half Done)
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#25
MarvW said:


What Rob said...

However, J.B. Weld is good stuff and will work, but it's kind of thick, but I'm sure you can stuff it into the slot.




Pre-heating the back will flow the epoxy more easily.

However...

Once set, according to JB Weld, you are good to 500°F for extended periods. At 600°F it breaks down in about 10 minutes. Might make things difficult to remove the back should it be necessary. The plate would need to be re-tempered.

Locktite 609 is an acrylic product and will flow easily. It will also release with the application of heat but at much lower temperatures, probably 200°F or there about will soften it. Acetone or MEK may be a solvent. I've used 609 for locking threads when there was no way to pre-apply. 609 wicks and so can be used after assembly. Holds at much lower temperature (-40°F and below) better than the blue and red stuff. But it won't wick easily at temperatures much below room temp.
Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things. -- G. Carlin
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#26
A short update - in about a half hour I straightened and polished the sides of one of them:



In a certain light, you can see the bottom of the "curve" still remaining:



The end:



It's shape is now similar to that of many traditional back saws, and it still retains a good grip on the plate.

This was done quickly, someone with a bit more care (read:time) could easily make these flat-out beautiful. I used a stationary belt sander followed by a magic wheel on an 8" bench grinder and polished with a buffing wheel charged with polishing compound on the same, all tools found in most woodshops.

I think it needs to be pointed out here that the 2 most difficult things to do when making your own saw is first the split nut - which few without a metal lathe will be able to accomplish - and folding the back. The back is a particular animal, as most brakes don't close fully, and it takes a large press to complete the bend if you don't have a brake with the capability. Neither lend themselves to one-offs, and getting them pre-made is a god-send.

As I mentioned, I'm not a fan of slit backs - I think folded ones like these are much better and more traditional. A little bluing (or not) and I think this is pretty much ready for a handle.

Leif
The wrong kind of non-conformist.

http://www.norsewoodsmith.com
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#27
Indeed the folded back is by far the hardest part! It is also a risky procedure, lots of things can go wrong along the way. When you have a metal lath, making the screws is easy by comparison.

You could hammer the front edge closed, that would enhance the looks when viewing from the front. And it is quite traditional.
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#28
Hi Leif,

For discussion purposes....

I don't dislike the shape that Dom is making his backs. But, I still like the idea of flattening just the heel end so the sides are parallel. I think it could be done so it wouldn't look objectionable when the saw is fully assembled. I plan to use his backs. I will attempt to flatten that area as you suggested an individual can do.

I understand the concern about stamping one's name on the side of the back and deforming it. A lot of people who will make a saw or two probably won't bother with stamping their name on it. Those who make lots of saws can accomplish it in other ways. If one were to stamp their name on the back you modified, it could still deform.

I've said this many times before. At the risk of being repetitious about something that few, if any, are in agreement with or interested in, a traditional mortised handle is basically a poor design. When the handle is screwed only to the blade, the handle can flex from side to side. When the mortise is made to fit snug to the back and the handle is flexed side to side, the flexing creates stress to the wood around the mortised area and cracks or breaks can occur. If the teeth are maintained sharp at all times, it is not as much of a problem as when the saw becomes dull and the user continues to use it. Most of the repairs I have made on old backsaws were made in the mortised area. All of those old saws had bad to horrible teeth. Owners of those saws actually tried to use those saws that would no doubt jamb in the kerf. I know there are other ways damage can occur, but if the mounting of the handle to the back and blade was solid, there would be less chance of cracks.

Here's my point... if a mortise is used in the traditional way, it would be best to have at least one screw through the back (Harvey Peace?) along with at least two more through the blade. When the handle is screwed to the back, it would be best to have a back with parallel sides, so the clamping of the screw would be even and effective. This is one reason I prefer a slotted back. There doesn't seem to be an all-out objection to slotted backs, even though they are non-traditional. But, no one wants to improve the problems surrounding the use of a mortise made in the traditional way.

If it's tradition that some people want, the saw should be made exactly like the old saws were made. On the other hand, if we are going to change one aspect of the design that is non-traditional, why not other aspects of the design?

Making anything strictly for traditional reasons doesn't seem practical to me. At least one saw maker agrees with me on that point. Veritas. They stepped way outside the proverbial box on their backsaw designs. I applaud them for that. No mortise on those saws.
Catchalater,
Marv


I did then what I knew how to do. Now that I know better, I do better.”
― Maya Angelou

I'm working toward my PHD.  (Projects Half Done)
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#29
Marv,

Excellent explanation (as always). Just wondering why there weren't more makers putting one of the saw nuts through the spine. As far as I can tell, Isaac is the only one doing that on some of his saws.

Steve
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#30
Wow Leif, they look great!!

Thanks for the positive feedback as well as the photos.
See ya around,
Dominic
------------------------------
Don't you love it when you ask someone what time it is and to prove how smart they are, they tell you how to build a watch?
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