Another saw sharpening question

[Arlin Eastman]

First I want to make sure I have these terms right.

1. Set is where the teeth are bent out of line of center?
2. Flem is the angle of degree of how the teeth are sharpened?
3. Rake is how the teeth are filed leaning forward degree or vertical?
4. What are the other terms and the meaning of them?



1. Is it best to take out the set in a saw before filing?
2. How do you know what the Flem and Set are currently on a saw?
3. How do I know if the saw is TPI or PPI?
4. Since small and large saws are Rip filed how do you know how deep to go to the base? Or how do I know what is supposed to be the proper base on a saw?

The video that Chris posted a link to is very helpful but does not answer these questions.

Arlin

[Arlin Eastman]

Also

I do not know what files to use on a saw.

There are round ones and triangle ones and are flat ones used to sharpen teeth also?

Arlin

[Isaac S]

Arlin Eastman said:

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First I want to make sure I have these terms right.

1. Set is where the teeth are bent out of line of center?
2. Flem is the angle of degree of how the teeth are sharpened?
3. Rake is how the teeth are filed leaning forward degree or vertical?
4. What are the other terms and the meaning of them?

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1. Yes, that is correct.

2. Fleam brings the teeth to points on alternating sides. By the way, it's fleam, not flem. I'm not sure if you will get any meaningful results if you search for flem.

3. Yes, but in Western handsaws, you will rarely see the teeth lean forward (Japanese saws may be a different matter).

4. There is further explanation and a few more pictures here .

Arlin Eastman said:

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1. Is it best to take out the set in a saw before filing?
2. How do you know what the Flem and Set are currently on a saw?
3. How do I know if the saw is TPI or PPI?
4. Since small and large saws are Rip filed how do you know how deep to go to the base? Or how do I know what is supposed to be the proper base on a saw?

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1. Not unless there is a huge amount of set that you are trying to reduce. Even then, you may want to be careful not to break the teeth by bending them back and just let the sharpenings reduce the set. New steel seems to be a little more ductile and able to withstand reversals, but there are no guarantees when you bend hardened steel.

2. You have to measure them. Measure fleam by placing a file between two teeth and see where it wants to sit. Measure the angle it makes with the side of the blade. I measure set with either a micrometer (small teeth) or calipers (larger teeth).

3. If you are referring to the number stamped on American handsaws, that will tell you the PPI (unless it has been retoothed). The rest of the world apparently measures in TPI (which makes more sense to me), so if you have a British saw with a number stamped on it, it may be TPI. I haven't seen enough British saws to know if they stamped theirs or not.

To convert between PPI and TPI:

TPI = PPI - 1
PPI = TPI + 1

4. I don't understand this question.

[Arlin Eastman]

Wow

There sure is a lot to know about saws and filing.

On #4 what I meant about base is the base of the teeth.

So how far down does a person go with a file or better how long should the teeth be?

Arlin

[Corneel]

You file until the teeth are sharp. The bottom of the gullet is kind of a by product.

It's probably much better explained in that video, but you start with jointing the tops of the teeth. That gives every tooth a small flat area on the top. Then you sink the file in the gullet and start to file both teeth, front and back of the file. This filing removes material from the flanks of these teeth, so the teeth come to a sharp point, but at the same time it files the bottom of the gullet.

[Isaac S]

Arlin Eastman said:

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Also

I do not know what files to use on a saw.

There are round ones and triangle ones and are flat ones used to sharpen teeth also?

Arlin

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Assuming that you are talking about Western saws, then you use the triangular files for almost all teeth. There are a few exceptions, but that is an advanced topic.

The cross section of the file is an eqilateral triangle. Since the distance between the teeth is a given, then the height of the tooth (what I think you are calling length) depends entirely on the rake angle that you use. The less rake, the taller the tooth will be.

While I usually don't pay too much attention to how far down the tooth goes, it can be a useful reference when you are sharpening a saw that has really bad teeth to start with. If you pay attention to the depth of the teeth, and make them all even, your teeth will all be the same size. It's rather difficult to put into words, but it's just basic geometry.

[Arlin Eastman]

Thank you Isaac

Now what kind of file is used for Jointing the teeth down?What file/s are used for sharpening teeth?
Last are the files single cut, double cut or what?

(Please include a link if you have one for both of the questions on files)

Thank you for putting up with my questions

Arlin

[Arch_E]

I don't think that matters (single, double). Grobet, nicholson, etc. What can matter is using too large of a file for smaller teeth; so, choose a file according to the TPI of the saw: more teeth per inch requires smaller files; fewer tpi, larger files.

check out these sites:
http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/sawjig/...ml#picture
http://wkfinetools.com/hUS-saws/Simonds/...ToFile.asp

Hope these help!
http://www.vintagesaws.com/library/primer/sharp.html

[Arlin Eastman]

Arch

Thank you for the links. I will save them to read in the next few days.

Arlin

[Isaac S]

Arlin Eastman said:

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Now what kind of file is used for Jointing the teeth down?What file/s are used for sharpening teeth?
Last are the files single cut, double cut or what?

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For jointing, I just use old saw files. Even when they are too worn for sharpening teeth, they have lots of life left for other things. If you're buying new for this, just look for a single cut mill file, maybe 8 or 10 inches long.

I use mostly single cut saw files, as they leave a smoother finish than a comparably sized double cut file. More important is the quality of the file. There aren't many good ones being made any more, so either order from a trusted vendor or look for new old stock ones made in the US.