Framing question
#21
  Re: Re: Framing question by EricU (yeah, no reason for ...)
I still do not think that brace is needed, however it is interesting that it is nested into the double top plate. If it were just a temporary brace you would think it would have just been face nailed on and easily smacked off later. Are the walls sheathed with OSB or something? I see a diagonal wall brace as well indicating that at least originally, the walls were not sheathed with a sheet material. Most likely, the top brace, was a brace that was used after pulling a square on the corners of the tops of the walls. I always just used a level. Pulling a square is a better way to get the walls square at the top but it is pee poor if the thing is square at the top but leaning one way or the other. Then again, maybe it was installed and then left there because there was no roof sheathing originally as Ferg speculates in his last post.

Then again, maybe it is a regional thing to CA. All I know about CA framing is that there is a framing hammer called the California Framer. If they have their own hammer they must have their own framing style. Seriously though it very well could be, Ferg is from CA and Martin either is or will be soon.

I'm not a framing expert but I worked on a framing crew for 2 years. In that time we never even put a brace up like that and I did frame ups involving stick built rafters, trusses, pole barns involving each of those. Studs spaced on 16 and 24. Cheap crap model homes and full custom McMansions and I have never seen the like.

I am just basing my opinions on my own observations too. Expert is a title I will let others grant to whom they see fit. I'm only a self proclaimed expert at eating and sometimes, snacking. The only things I know I am truly an expert at are the things I am reluctant to talk with other people about or lend advice with because usually said people will not take advice and continue to believe their own wrong opinions on the matter. I will usually try at least once more though.

The only real experience I have with the topic at hand is this garage I am building and even have a thread on in this very sub forum. My building inspector did not chide me for not having a lone corner brace anywhere in my building. In fact, and I quote, he said: "This garage is built better than most houses." The reason that is my only real experience is that while working as a house framer, I was never around during the inspection. Since we had to go back to the houses we framed to fix something on occasion, I can only speculate the inspector saw something he did not like. Never once was it a 2x4 corner brace or lack thereof.

Anyone is open to criticizing said garage. Just make sure you are an expert first and then I still probably will not listen.

Sorry to go all Joe on everybody.
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When something has to be done, no one knows how to do it.  When they "pay" you to do it, they become "experts".
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#22
  Re: Re: Framing question by Axehandle (I still do not think...)
The brace is odd. I consider myself competent enough to build a garage and would not consider putting that in. I would be more worried about the 2x4 rafters that appear to have a decent span on them. Let's hope you have no snow load.
Mike

Non impediti ratione cogitationis
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#23
  Re: Re: Framing question by Axehandle (I still do not think...)
I install temporary braces similar to your diagonal brace when I can't install a spring board (i.e. concrete floor) to keep the wall straight. I usually put them under the top plate so they won't be in the way of trusses or ceiling joists and rafters. Strapping nailed to the trusses (or ceiling joists) and to a third, offset, plate on the gable end will eliminate the need for a permanent diagonal brace.

From what I can see in the photo, you still need that third plate on the gable wall. Pushing it tight to the gable studs and a generous amount nails into the existing plates will provide the necessary offset to securely hold that wall with strapping. It also appears that there are some ceiling joists or bottom chords that will need to be installed before strapping the ceiling. Butt joints in the rows of strapping should be staggered to properly tie the two gable ends together. Your sheetrock, installed perpendicular to the strapping should also have staggered joints.

It appears that the garage was framed with the structural components required for a finished ceiling purposely omitted. Other than the brace, there is nothing visible in the photo that would keep the wall from bowing in or out from a strong gust through an open door. I don't think it would provide any real structural integrity for much more than that though. You'd have a much stronger structure with all of the above components installed. While you're at it, I suggest you check connections at rafter ties (ceiling joists), collar ties (they keep the roof from opening at the ridge), and "hurricane clips" (they keep the roof on the walls). Each of these components are part of a system, and either rely upon or enhance each other in the event of extreme loads or stresses.
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#24
  Re: Re: Framing question by MstrCarpenter (I install temporary ...)
Thanks all for the comments. I'm going to spend some time adding some blocking, strapping and hurricane clips...then cut those corner braces out.

In the framing I've done with Habitat for Humanity we never had those left in place. But I have installed lots of strapping and clips. Different times different methods.
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#25
  Re: Re: Framing question by Martin K (Thanks all for the c...)
If you're going to sheet rock the rafters, and you have a prayer of storing anything on the joists----I'd certainly add a few more. My parents garage (which also started out with skip sheathing on the roof) had those useless 2x4s spanning the entire width of a two-car garage. What a joke. To do it right you might want some 2x6s or better and then judge any weight you anticipate. Good luck.
Dave
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#26
  Re: Re: Framing question by MstrCarpenter (I install temporary ...)
MstrCarpenter said:


I install temporary braces similar to your diagonal brace when I can't install a spring board (i.e. concrete floor) to keep the wall straight. I usually put them under the top plate so they won't be in the way of trusses or ceiling joists and rafters.




Upon further thought after I posted, I considered this too. I had never done anything like it in the past though.

The building was definitely not designed with attic storage in mind. Those are only rafter ties not attic joists.
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When something has to be done, no one knows how to do it.  When they "pay" you to do it, they become "experts".
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#27
  Re: Framing question by Martin K (I have this corner b...)
That brace is there to add lateral support to the gable wall. The side walls are held in place by the trusses but there is nothing in the center of the gable wall to resist the wind load and stop it from bowing. I usually install them on top of the bottom cord of the trusses. There is no way anyone would take the time to cut the top plate for a temporary brace.

Is it needed? I don't know. Drywalling the ceiling would probably add the same support. But it would be easy enough to move it up too.

Twinn
Will post for food.
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#28
  Re: Re: Framing question by theeviltwinn (That brace is there ...)
Remember, that is in California, where building codes have been created to minimize earthquake damage.

I agree letting that brace into the double top plate is not intended to be a temporary brace, but is intended to be permanent.

Now, those braces are there because there were no ceiling rafters. Adding(and putting equivalent cross bracing above the new ceiling rafters should make the cross framing even stronger and solve the sheetrocking problem.




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#29
  Re: Framing question by Martin K (I have this corner b...)
I've never framed anything and have not one iota of expertise in this area so I can't offer squat, but I found this to be a very interesting and informative thread.
Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
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#30
  Re: Framing question by Martin K (I have this corner b...)
Seismic dampeners. Northern California they were/are in a lot of buildings for earthquake protection. Google is your friend.

Frame down the rafters to be lower than those, do not take them out. You can sister a 2x6 to the rafters and allow the 2x6 to hang down to the right level to be below the braces. That adds strength to the rafters, and is easy to do. Otherwise you can rip 2x lumber to be the right height to drop it down.
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