Used CNC Pricing
#11
  Re: (...)
I was looking at a used CNC and see on one site they owner of the site says his brand is worth 80% or more for a used machine. I don't even think Festool has that kind of value.
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#12
  Re: Used CNC Pricing by fixtureman (I was looking at a u...)
fixtureman said:


I was looking at a used CNC and see on one site they owner of the site says his brand is worth 80% or more for a used machine. I don't even think Festool has that kind of value.




The one i built is easily worth more than double what i have in it. It a capacity, feature, and functionality price index. 90% of users cant or wont build one from raw materials. Buying one from a "mfg" would really cost you.

The original cost will determine the ratio of a used machine. A machine large enough to fit in a garage and that can be powered off 120 or 240 single phase and that has the ridgidness for accuracy and speed and that has an indystrual and rebuildable and adaptable controller is pretty much future proof. A 4x4 class machine will do 80% of the work most people do on a cnc and an open ended machine can fixture any length part you need to load. Add in multiple extra axis for features like 4th axis lathe and even 5th axis work, add on features for 3d printing or bolt on diode laser - these are features 20 and 30k does not even buy you.

Age, speed, machine materials, mechanical technology, controller type, interface, software, ease of use, etc are all factors.

Also there is very little competition for working assembled low cost high volume capable machines. They are not easy or cheap to get and do right. The buyer really is either going to pay a lot or they are going to work a lot to get a good machine.

So you posted no details but it is easily justifiable for 80% or more.


Glad its my shop I am responsible for - I only have to make me happy.

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#13
  Re: Used CNC Pricing by fixtureman (I was looking at a u...)
I believe pie in the sky claims like that are just that claims.

There is way too many functioning things involved in CNC machines to ever allow me to consider even 50% of what is claimed value new is.

I have been to auctions where CNC was up for grabs and 50% was generous both times.....
Let us not seek the Republican Answer , or the Democratic answer. Let us not seek to fix the blame for the past. Let us accept our own responsibility for the future  John F. Kennedy 



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#14
  Re: Used CNC Pricing by fixtureman (I was looking at a u...)
depends on if you want to buy one or sell one, as usual. If someone is getting money out of a machine, the actual cost of the machine is nothing. I'm always amazed at some of the cnc machine tools I see on the market, but I think they just get unreliable and people buy new. Not sure how many of the cnc routers really go on the market except under duress, I don't think it happens very often, so estimates of valuation are not well-tested.
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#15
  Re: Used CNC Pricing by fixtureman (I was looking at a u...)
"CNC" is way too generic a term for a reasonable discussion about pricing.

I currently own an early CNC Shark from Rockler, resale value would be a small fraction of new cost. It is now several generations old.

I have been working with full sized professional CNCs for 20 years. A 5x10 Shopbot can be bought new for $12k, or you can spend half a million for a system that will cut both top and bottom of a part at the same time.

Used value, even more so than cars, is wildly variable by condition, hours of use and even location. Remember that these machines, especially the larger commercial units, require professional riggers to just move out of a shop onto a semi. Moving cost pretty much has to come out of the resale price, and it is not cheap.

In my experience, the owner's claim is so much bloviation.

Ralph
Ralph Bagnall
http://www.woodcademy.com
Watch Woodcademy TV free on Amazon Prime!
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#16
  Re: Re: Used CNC Pricing by JGrout (I believe pie in the...)
JGrout said:


I believe pie in the sky claims like that are just that claims.

There is way too many functioning things involved in CNC machines to ever allow me to consider even 50% of what is claimed value new is.

I have been to auctions where CNC was up for grabs and 50% was generous both times.....




+1

High end machining centers like HAAS mills I have seen go for pennies on the dollar...but that seems pretty constant across most industrial machines.....they arent like stuff that average joes can just go buy, pickup and put in a 2 car garage.

I don't really watch the used CNC market. Like Mike said, if I wanted a large machine, id build one (or hire someone like Mike to do it for me) or buy a smaller benchtop set up like I did because time was a consideration, but if I decided to buy used, NO WAY I would spend 80% of new.....that doesnt make sense. Just buy it new.

Once Favre hangs it up though, it years of cellar dwelling for the Pack. (Geoff 12-18-07)  



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#17
  Re: Used CNC Pricing by fixtureman (I was looking at a u...)
It all depends. Would need to know the machine and it's condition.

Mike has a good point. Let's say the guy spent 3k in raw materials and built it himself. Let's assume it works great. Asking $2400 would be a great deal, because the buyer would save all the labor in putting it together. I built a CNC, and if I had to do it over again, I might consider lurking on the DIY forum and waiting for someone to sell, even if it involved renting a truck and driving several states. A hardcore DIY build is months and months of building and debugging.
It's was an interesting experience (not sure I would call it fun), I learned a lot, and another build would go faster, but don't underestimate the value of potentially hundreds of hours of work (depending on how hardcore DIY his design was)
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#18
  Re: Re: Used CNC Pricing by PaulJohnstone (It all depends. Wou...)
I am not familiar with wood CNC machines, but am with metal working CNC's. I own six for finishing operations in my powder metal manufacturing plant. A machine can easily look "almost new" and be functionally wore out. So much cannot be determined until under actual production use, that on the used market, you are lucky to get 20 to 25% of new cost, if even that. Also, there is no value, beyond scrap, for tooling & fixtures. There are just too many areas for wear to occur.

For a wood CNC machine, if the machine was only used by a little old lady on every other Sunday, and was only a year or so old, with all repair parts readily available, then maybe 50% of new. If the machine was used on any materials that have any abrasiveness to them (glue in MDF is one), then start far less with an offer.

But bear in mind my point of view is full up-tme production.
Waiting to grow up beyond being just a member
http://www.metaltech-pm.com
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#19
  Re: Used CNC Pricing by fixtureman (I was looking at a u...)
fixtureman said:


I was looking at a used CNC and see on one site they owner of the site says his brand is worth 80% or more for a used machine. I don't even think Festool has that kind of value.




Let me give you some perspective having just sold one on the internet. It was a simple hobby machine (a camaster stinger I) with some nice specs (stand, 4th axis, etc). But not really usable by a production shop because it's a 25" x 36" working space.

I paid 12k. I included the quote showing what i paid for it when i posted it for sale. I priced it at 9k, and had no trouble selling it at that price (75% of value).
In fact, i was totally and completely inundated with calls to buy it at that price (~10 a week).

If i really cared, i feel like i probably could have sold it for 10k+ (it is going to a good home). Note that the prices are going up on this model next year, which helped ;P

Humorously, i expect this is the opposite of what would happen with a larger more production model.

I expect the production shops don't honestly care whose cnc they buy, as long as it meets their requirements and works.

I would expect the market there to be much worse for resale value.

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#20
  Re: Re: Used CNC Pricing by DanielBerlin ([blockquote]fixturem...)
Good observation. Added to your comments, the used market on industrial machines is very different. A lot more choice, and a lot of used machines still on the market since the economy tanked.

Ralph
Ralph Bagnall
http://www.woodcademy.com
Watch Woodcademy TV free on Amazon Prime!
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