Saw Files - Ethical Question???

[Admiral]

I'm always looking about for files, and was picking up some items in my local Lowes and saw they had a package containing a 6" Slim and 6" XSlim saw files for $6.95, made in china, Kobalt brand. I fondled them, was about to put them back and then noticed the "Lifetime Guarantee" logo on the front packaging, and sure enough, on the back side of the package it said if they ever were unsatisfactory for any reason, you may return them for a replacement "no questions asked." This piqued my interest as it seemed incredibly silly to me, so I went to the customer service desk and presented the question that if they were worn out and didn't cut anymore, was that something that would qualify for the replacement guarantee.

The store manager actually happened to be tending the desk (they just opened at 8am). He immediately "got" the fact that files were consumables, but smiled and said that anything Kobalt that was not motorized was eligible for the replacement guarantee, and yes, the files were included as they had the guarantee logo. I pressed the issue, saying that I would likely use up these files sharpening saws. He agreed that it was a somewhat crazy corporate decision in this particular case, but as it didn't affect his store's profitability at all because it would be classified as a guarantee return he viewed it as a marketing/customer satisfaction play to get, in his words, "customers for life." I pressed again, saying that this would guarantee me FILES for life unless these were "magic" files that never wore out, and he agreed this would be the effect of the corporate policy, noting that maybe the cost of the two files was $3 and this was small change corporate-wide. He remembered one instance where some mill files that were worn out were returned and exchanged. He laughed and said go for it. Nice guy, nice conversation.

Now, I haven't any experience with Kobalt files lifespan, but since this has the potential for being a lifetime supply of (albeit cheap chinese) 6" saw files no matter how long they last, the ethical question presented is does one take advantage of what appears to me to be a stupid policy?

[JimBelair]

I think if I found the files "unsatisfactory" in that they dulled very quickly, I would return them, even if it had been months since I purchased them. If I got normal expected service life out of the files, that is satisfactory and no return justified. There will always be those who take advantage of a policy.

[RonB1957]

OH a loaded subject......Unethical? Not when you consider where the company is coming from.
1) Companies that make cheap tools, power or otherwise are banking on you NOT returning them. Easier to throw it away and get a new one. Also, if one considers the gas and time to drive there to get it replaced, most would opt. not to mess with it. We are a throw away society. Particularly the current younger people. They were raised to be that way.
2) A lot of folks would think the way you currently do. Worried about being "Ethical". Yea, me too. But most large companies, especially foreign, do not function on ethical considerations. They have little to loose on such small items, but a lot to gain by bringing in more customers, over all, and driving existing American companies out of business. P.R. strategy. Some will use catch phrases on packaging or adds like" Heavy Duty", or "Peoples Choice" to purposely steer consumers a particular direction. Once the existing companies are gone and the market belongs to a few corporate giants, foreign or otherwise, policies tend to change. Products become cheaper with fewer choices, or higher prices and so on. In the mean time, a few insignificant exchanges mean nothing. I have no doubt there has been more than one study done on the purchasing and use habits of the consumer. 90% of the male population does not even read the instructions. Let alone a warranty. There was once some sort of study/ survey done on that one, many years ago. Ultimately it comes down to strategy and tactics of business. So lets see. In 30 years I have personally returned 1) craftsman (Irwin type ) clamp--approx. $10.95, two wooden clamps--approx $19.95 each, and one SK socket--$5.95.
On the other hand, I could give you a few examples of more costly larger power tools that were not honored, but that is another story.

[joemac]

JimBelair said:

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I think if I found the files "unsatisfactory" in that they dulled very quickly, I would return them, even if it had been months since I purchased them. If I got normal expected service life out of the files, that is satisfactory and no return justified. There will always be those who take advantage of a policy.

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This is my moral compass as well.

[Admiral]

JimBelair said:

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I think if I found the files "unsatisfactory" in that they dulled very quickly, I would return them, even if it had been months since I purchased them. If I got normal expected service life out of the files, that is satisfactory and no return justified. There will always be those who take advantage of a policy.

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You put your finger on my issue; they will likely not have much of a full life, when compared to the vintage Nicholson and Simmons files that I like so much but are increasingly hard to find. I know they are likely to be short-lived, which is why I might consider returning (for a replacement, not refund).

Ron makes good points as well, corporate policy, long term strategy, etc.

[Anak]

FWIW, JC Penney once sold a "lifetime warranty" battery for automobiles. Those who came up with such a policy had to know that there is no such thing as a battery that will last for life, but they still saw a profitable opportunity in offering such a product. That warranty was upheld for several decades and folks who kept track of things got more than their money's worth out of the deal. I have never once looked at that situation and thought that someone behaved unethically. If anything, I have wished I had known about those batteries and bought one.

Someone in corporate made the rules. They think the rules are fair to them. I would not have a problem with following their rules.

[MarkSingleton]

One other thing to keep in mind. Whenever a company offers a money back guarantee, they are doing so knowing full well that the vast majority of people, even if dissatisfied, do not follow through and get their money back.

Does not mean they are, or are not, selling quality merchandise in the first place.

In this case, it sounds like just one more marketing decision to get the initial sale. They know in
advance that very few will take those files back for a replacement.

[Paul-in-Plymouth]

Back in the days when Sears was still the premier mail order business and also sold decent Craftsman tools at their stores, I had a Craftsman tape measure that broke one day. It had seen many years of hard use, but I thought I could maybe buy a replacement tape to put in the housing.

When I took it to the local Sears store, the clerk took my old tape measure and simply handed me a brand new one like it. I protested I had used it for many years and had got my money’’s worth. He said it didn’t matter. It was a “Craftsman,” and that meant replacement. Period.

30 or more years later I still use that tape, and I still carry a lot of good will for Sears that causes me to persist in looking for things I can actually buy there. That has become harder and harder to do as the business seems to have changed. Replacing my Craftsman tool so painlessly was a small and relatively inexpensive business decision on Sears’ part. Nevertheless, it pleased me, and I remember.

Sounds like Lowes is trying to build the same kind of brand identity for Kobalt as Sears had for Craftsman. Parenthetically, I have to say that as a chemist, the spelling fills me with a mix of annoyance and amusement. On the other hand, I might be more annoyed and less amused if they actually spelled it with a “C.”

Based on your report I might try some triangular files from Lowes next time I need new ones. At least it’s a source close to home, and my old sources seem to have dried up. If they didn’t perform, I’d demand replacement. If I got expected service, I probably wouldn’t, as some others have also said.

[MikeS.]

Paul-in-Plymouth said:

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Parenthetically, I have to say that as a chemist, the spelling fills me with a mix of annoyance and amusement. On the other hand, I might be more annoyed and less amused if they actually spelled it with a “C.”

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On the cobalt thing. Kobolds are spirits that haunt caves and mines. Cobalt came from mines thought to be haunted by these spirits and hence the name IIRC. I picked up some Chinese files form Menards that were softer than the saws i was filing. I just returned them for a refund as they were junk. It the files in question stand up well than it is certainly a justification for using them and returning them if they don't hold up as well as a "real" file. Please report back as to how they worked for you.

[cputnam]

Interesting question.

It has been shown that very few people will act on the warranty (requires receipt,etc.) Secondly, very few people will use a file as intensively as a saw filer. For most folks, such files will last many years. Thirdly, if the return policy starts to hurt enough for them to notice, they will change it.

Once had a boss at GE who had just bought a Craftsman 3/8" socket set. Over the weekend they worked on a friend's bulldozer. On Monday he was at Sears because the socket wrench was bent into an "L" shape. As the clerk was getting him a new one, he asked how big the cheater bar was. Boss said about 4'. Sears got far more (and still does in some corners) out of that warranty and the perceptions it created than it lost.

I say use and return.