hybrid table saw advise
#11
My SIL is asking for advise on buying a decent hybrid table saw that doesn't break the bank. I really know nothing about them and it's been 25 years since I bought my one and only table saw...a 10" contractor's saw.

He hasn't really been bit by the woodworking bug (yet), but he is a homeowner and likes to make a small project once in awhile and he has a son he wants to build things with. He bought a table top saw a few years back and has seen the limitations of it and wants to move up.

Any suggestions appreciated.

roger901
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#12
I have a Sears "ZIP Code" saw. I have been very happy with it. It is a hybrid (cabinet saw type trunnions, but 110 v). I believe the model # I have is a 22104 which I upgraded with a Biesemeyer fence. the 22124 came with the Biesemeyer.

I would highly recommend it.

I purchased it new about 7-8 years ago.

The newer ones come with a granite top (I cannot comment on the pro's/cons's to that. Mine is the cast iron top)

Anyway, hope that helps

-Brian
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#13
Tough to beat that $800 Grizzly IMO. No direct experience but it's gets good reviews in the rags and from the specs it's hard to beat for the money. G715 maybe?
-Marc

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#14
Roger,

+1 on the Craftsman zip code saws. I think they are/were made by Orion. The Craftsman 22114 has a large solid cast iron table, a 1-1/2HP motor, (actually, it drew the same number of amps as the 22124 rated at 1 3/4 HP), cabinet-mounted trunions, a solid fence, and a cabinet with a dust collection attachment. It was priced at less than half of an entry-level Unisaw. After ten years of almost daily serious use in furniture making , I am completely satisfied with my 22114 saw. It has done everything I have asked of it. It has plenty of power and is capable of extremely accurate cuts ( I do segmented woodturning also.) I think Sears sold a lot of these saws, and many owners post favorable comments about them. If you can find a used 22114 it deserves serious consideration. I think the current batch of Craftsman 10" hybrid saws with granite tables are also made by Orion (compare to Steel City) and deserve a serious look.

You may find that some people on Woodnet just trash the Craftsman brand. They call the brand “Crapsman”, they say that they will never buy this brand again, etc. They really discouraged me from buying that 22114 until I figured out that such sweeping condemnation is irresponsible and often absurd. It is unfair to people who look to Woodnet for serious advice.

Here's why I say that. Orion International was started by two Delta executives, Mark Strahler and Nanette Rizzo. Looking at the Craftsman “zip code” saws and the Delta saws, it was obvious that they were almost identical designs. The people who were touting Delta and trashing Craftsman were talking about very similar products, made with many or all of the same parts, probably by the same manufacturer! The same thing is true of a 14" Craftsman band saw (trashed) and the 14" Rikon (very well regarded). Obviously the same saw.

Good luck

Doug
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#15
The replacement for the discontinued 22114 is the 22116. It is pretty much the same, but with a granite top and a proprietary fence.

While the granite top is downplayed by some, the actual owners are pretty happy with them, from what I have read.

This thing weighs 485 pounds, which is a plus.

-- 22116

I had a 22114 and only got rid of it to get a SawStop. The 1.75hp SawStop doesn't cut any better.
See ya later,
Bill
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#16
Wondering if the hybrid is due to a 110 available only? If not check CL, often the older cab saws are pretty high, but when they are deals, they are steals. I'd much rather have a serviceable cab saw as an in between saw any day.

A lot of Sears contractors saws out there too, often times at 100 to 150 bux. You could afford to put a Vega fence on it, and still be way under hybrid saw money.
Worst thing they can do is cook ya and eat ya

GW
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#17
Not sure of their budget, but generally $550 will get the ball rolling in a new saw. The Delta 36-725 has the best fence and the best track record among the entry level stationary saws. The R4512 and Cman 28133 have a history of alignment issues that'd concern me...supposedly it's fixed, but even without that issue, the Delta fence is better IMO.

The Grizzly G0771 or G0715P are top choices at the next price point. The G0771 has cabinet mounted trunnions, full enclosure, solid cast wings, but sports an average fence. The G0715P has similar underpinnings as the R4512, and has had a similar history of alignment issues....they're a great saw if you get a good one...great fence, strong motor, solid wings, full enclosure, etc. If you want a good fence and solid wings, the G0715P is the easiest route, albeit there is some risk of a problem....even so, Grizzly's CS is great. Food for thought...A better fence could always be added to the G0771 if they felt the stock fence wasn't quite up to par....HD sells the Delta T3 for ~ $183 - discounts and selling the stock fence could easily put the total fence upgrade to < $100 out of pocket, so that route would be a consideration if I were in the market.

It's worth noting that Steel City is now defunct. The 22116 is still a nice enough saw, but it'll no longer be supported by Steel City/Orion, so it'll be up to Sears....someone else may still carry SC parts regardless.

The next step up is something like the Jet Proshop, GI 50-200R, Baleigh, PM64B, Laguna Fusion, or PM1000 ....all will put you clearly into range of (or past) the cost of a Grizzly G1023RL or G0690, which are industrial cabinet saws and are the more substantial choice at that price point if 220v is available.

Beyond that is the Saw Stop contractor saw starting at ~ $1700, but comes with steel wings and lame fence at that price, so figure closer to $2k to get it with a good fence, more if you want cast wings. Then the PCS starts at ~ $2600 the last I knew.

Regardless of what they end up with, make sure they know the importance of getting a decent blade or two. With the Freud Diablo and Irwin Marples blades starting at ~ $30, there's really no excuse for running a stock blade (or a cheap aftermarket equivalent) on a $600+ saw unless you're cutting something rough like framing lumber.
Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....








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#18
Wow, didn't even know Delta was making a TS outside of the Uni anymore. Riving knife, blade brake, cast top for 6 Benjamins

Delta 36-725
Worst thing they can do is cook ya and eat ya

GW
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#19
Steve N said:


Wow, didn't even know Delta was making a TS outside of the Uni anymore. Riving knife, blade brake, cast top for 6 Benjamins

Delta 36-725




It's even been pretty well received for the price point....no real systemic issues to speak of. They also offer some upgraded versions (36-5000 series) with a 15 amp induction motor instead of 13 amp, solid wings, and a single front rail vs two-piece, but the cost (~$900+) jumps quite a bit, putting them at or past the cost of a Grizzly hybrid.
Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....








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#20
Think you need to be a bit more specific about a price that "does not break the bank." For a few folks that I know, any saw or tool more than US$200.00 is out of reach. Plus some people have no idea as to the cost of tools and tooling, especially when moving on up to a better piece of equipment.

I am leery of any Sears product these days. Seems that Sears is always dropping/discontinuing a product and parts then become unobtainium, or -- at best-- very difficult to find.

Have you considered looking on Craig's List for a previously owned or older piece of iron?
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