Carbide Spiral/Helical Cutter Question
#11
This morning I was paging through the Grizzly catalog I keep next to my favorite seat in the "reading room" and took notice of something I had not previously seen. The spiral cutter head with carbide insets (74 inserts) on the 15" model planer (G0435ZW) could be ordered with the spiral head pre-installed on the machine for $1895 which is a $700 upcharge from the 15" model with the straight blades (G0453W). If you already own the planer with the straight blades, you could but the upgraded spiral head and install it for $835. What actually caught my eye is the cost of the inserts ... $73.95 for a pack of 10 inserts.

I know from what I have read from folks who own these type units that the inserts last forever, but if you were to replace all 74 inserts, 8 packs of these will run you $600.

So I think my question is, Do you consider the entire machine disposable after you've run it for say 5-6 years and the carbide inserts wear out? It would almost seem more cost effective to replace the entire machine instead of paying 1/3 the price of the entire machine or nearly the cost of a new head just for the price of cutter inserts. For anyone who owns these, what is your opinion.

** Note - the prices above are updated from the grizzly site for 2016 **
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#12
Well if you are only going to get 6 years of use out of all 4 sides of the inserts then you are not a typical user. They say it's possible to get 10x the life of a typical straight blade from each side of the insert. Realistically a hobbyist could easily get 6 years out of EACH side of the inserts which would make each cutter last 24 years. I think many hobbyists could probably get close to 10 years out of each side!

For me personally, I'm a fairly heavy hobbyist and on my jointer, I think 7-8 years is what I got on my first side of inserts. On my planer I haven't rotated yet and it has been 6 years. I knew this going in and figured on about 25-30 years to wear all 4 sides on my machines. At that point, if I am still into and able to WW, I'll probably just purchase a new cutterhead.
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#13
I don't see how you think it is cost effective to spend $1800 for a new machine instead of $600 for new inserts. You don't have to buy the inserts from Grizzly. I have a link somewhere for the replacements at a lower cost. I'm going on 5 years now and haven't rotated any yet. You have yet to figure the cost of knife sharpening and new knives over the life span of the carbide cutter. I'm not saying it is equal but closes the gap. Not having to set another knife.....priceless.
"There is no such thing as stupid questions, just stupid people"
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#14
Ill bite
I bought my grizzly planer several years back with straight blades the straight blades lasted less than a year I am guessing I planed about 6/700 board feet with them before they were really dull
instead of sharpening them or replacing I converted it to a shelix head
that was at least 6/7 years ago I have planned thousands of board feet on the planner since I have yet to turn the inserts I am a serious hobbyist spend hours and hours in shop each week work with all my own air dried wood
so I figure it this way regular knifes cost about 60 dollars shipped at least one set a year X 5/6 years =$300 /$360
yes I could sharpen them and would my guy charges $20 plus shipping so I might get that cost down to less than $200 for five years of use
but I still have to listen to a screaming planer and change planer knifes on a regular basis
I have not turned my inserts yet still have three sides to go so add the 200 up X 4 my inserts are cheaper than regrinding / replacing regular knifes
without the noise or the work of knife changing
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#15
All ... thank you for your input ... I wasn't thinking the inserts lasted that long. From what you're saying, I'd probably never have to install another set of inserts at all. I still think the pricing is kind of crazy though in the grand scheme of things. My thought process for replacing the whole machine is that other things wear out not including the carbide inserts (i.e. the motor, capacitors, belts, gears, rollers, etc.). After what I thought would have only been say 6 years of use, I'd think twice about dropping another 600 bucks to pay for new inserts with the chance of other costly repairs that may soon pop-up ... but now that I stand corrected that they will last much longer, I think it's a moot point.
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#16
I just rotated my Byrd inserts for the first time (7 Years old) and I wasn't sure I needed too. But as some others pointed out, there are aftermarket inserts available far cheaper than the OEM ones, for both Byrd and Grizzly.
I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.
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#17
I would add that in 15-20 years the cost for inserts will be lower in comparison to where they are today.

I'd like to see a comparison for a heavy user between sharpening steel and replacing cutter heads. You would have to add in the labor cost of servicing time and resetting planer knives as well to get a true comparison.
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#18
One reason I switched was the testimony from a Woodnetter some years ago. I haven't seen around in some time, but he milled tropical hardwoods in Peru. He said he had to change planer knives (from memory) 2-3 times a day with HSS ones. He switched to the carbide inserts and was changing them about every 3 months...convinced me.
I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.
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#19
I noticed quite a while ago the price for Grizzly's inserts was more than ones for a Byrd head......

Ed
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#20
I too am a pretty serious hobbiest, even sell some stuff. I run hundreds of BF a year through my jointer/planer combo, which means it's getting double duty. I owned an Inca J/P for over 25 years and never wore out a set of straight knives. I had two sets and sharpened them myself, so the cost of the knives was zero. It took 20 minutes to change them and about 30 minutes to sharpen a set. How often I had to sharpen them varied with what I was milling, but I would guess that I did it 2 or 3 times a year. With my "new" MiniMax changing them is person proof with the knife setting gauge they have and it takes less than 5 minutes. I may get a Byrd head for it at some point, but it won't be because of any great time savings and certainly not any cost savings.

There are some great deals to be had on low use straight knife jointers and planers because folks just have to upgrade to a spiral head unit.

John
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