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Location: Orlando, Florida
I've tried a LOT of chisels. Here's my list of great chisels, in order of their performance (not price):
Lee Valley PM-V11
Lie-Nielsen A2
Matsamura White Steel
Ashley Iles Bench (I prefer the "butt" chisels for chopping - not the Mk II)
Vintage Witherby
Vintage Stanley 750
I personally was not impressed with my Narex chisels and I sold them. I don't do mortises with chisels anymore (I succumbed to the dark side and I now use a green colored power tool). My favorite paring chisels are the somewhat pricey Nakashima paring chisels. They are awesome.
Still Learning,
Allan Hill
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Several people have mentioned Japanese chisels here. I've never used one, but now I'm intrigued. It would be interesting--and useful--for a few more suggestions about which brands to look for.
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Location: Eugene, OR
overland said:
Several people have mentioned Japanese chisels here. I've never used one, but now I'm intrigued. It would be interesting--and useful--for a few more suggestions about which brands to look for.
Email Stu at Tools from Japan. Click "contact us" Tell him what your needs are. You'll be in good hands. I bought several Koyamaichis from him, and -- cold dead hands, and all that. Love them. If I may offer advice from my own experience, I'd stay away from Matsumuras, which are readily available (and for some reason, well reviewed) in the US. If you bang them, or he77, tap them into anything halfway hard, they chip. I'll probably get flogged for saying that, but it ain't just me.
Best,
Aram, always learning
"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Web: My woodworking photo site
Aram said:
Email Stu ...
.....
If I may offer advice from my own experience, I'd stay away from Matsumuras, which are readily available (and for some reason, well reviewed) in the US. If you bang them, or he77, tap them into anything halfway hard, they chip. I'll probably get flogged for saying that, but it ain't just me.
I agree with the recommendation to contace Stu. I've never ordered from him, but the next time I need something Japanese, I'll get it from him. I have not had any chipping problems with my Matsumura chisels, and I've used them a lot on all kinds of, mostly American, hardwoods - Oak, maple, cherry, walnut etc. Never a single chip. I've had the chisels for probably 10 years. They are my regular users for joinery. It's possible that Matsumura quality has slipprd in recent years - I don't have any knowledge of that - but I've been more than happy with my Matsumura chisels. I've chipped other, unknown brand Japanese chisels, but I never have chipped one of my Matsumuras.
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Aram said:
Email Stu at
Tools from Japan. Click "contact us"
+1. Stu is a stand-up guy. I recently ordered from him, and when it shipped, the exchange rate changed. He refunded about $0.50 to my card. He has stuff that no one else sells, and he is extremely knowledgeable about what he has in his inventory.
Still Learning,
Allan Hill
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I agree about Stu and his business--I once bought an Atoma 400 from him. The shipping is also surprisingly cheap. I priced a chisel last night and found that economy shipping was less than $4.
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Location: W. of Rainier, E. of Orcas
Everyone's mileage varies. I have Narex (metric), PMV11 in various lengths, and Eastern laminated and HSS. I am not so enamored of dovetails to be obsessed with specific designs for that purpose. Mine are general purpose tools. I gravitate to the Japanese laminated because they feel good in hand.
But:
1. How a tool feels in use is important. Longer Veritas are awkward for me, and seem to vibrate when hammered. Narex feel massive--I see timber framing when I pick one up. The PMV11 butt chisel is short and feels short; maybe, for hinge mortises. After setting the hoops, removing varnish, and honing, the japanese laminated were love at first grab.
All of these tools work in dovetailing. However, mind your imperials and metrics.
But...
2. Sharpening these bad boys (girls) is another matter. The Narex are chrome vanadium steel. Look at a stone and they practically sharpen themselves. Some people like this sort of ease. PMV11 is a little more difficult, and frankly, Lee and company do a fantastic job so honing is all you need, at first.
Japan laminated is another story. I do them the traditional way, and that is one and only one bevel. The carbon steel is hard, HARD! I started on ceramic stones, then graduated to diamond. Sharpening and restoring a laminated edge is work. Bloody fingers don't mean they are sharp. That steel is brittle too. It chips easily. HSS is just tough, and a pricey curiosity. Next....
3. Configuration. Japanese chisels need much more initial setup than any other tool. I could spend 2 hours getting one 30mm tool ready for use. That's with diamonds. Some people complain of an initial PMV11 poor edge that requires grinding off to get at the good steel; I don't know. Mine still sit in their plastic tubes. I have the Imperial version of the Narex mortise chisels I use for that purpose.
Western chisels have sharp corners. I debate with myself, then usually wrap the finger points with blue tape.
4. I have bought, and inherited, old time chisels with less than satisfying results. I have a couple Coast-to-Coast and Stanley? clear yellow plastic handle gems from way back that love notching studs, shearing nails, and cleaning drywall. I'm trying to remember when they were sharpened--they are more like cold chisels.
5. Cost. Narex are cheap. Veritas, killingly expensive. Some of my Japanese compete with Veritas, but the ones I use hurt at only $20 each and maybe, are only second hand. They were never used before me. The point is, cost has always been one of my gremlins. Waling away on a modest tool is far easier than on one costing 4 and 5 times more.
I still see a lot of your blue Marples in the magazine writer tool boxes.
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Hi Bruce
I must ask you what media you use for your sharpening - not because I am interested in starting a debate on sharpening, but out of curiosity since I do not experience any of the effort you clearly do when it comes to sharpening.
The point is, sharpening media and tool steels need to be matched. The ONLY chisel I find an effort is the single PM HSS Japanese chisel ("from Hell") that Stu (Tools from Japan) sent me to try out. Even with diamond it is an effort. It is hard, hard, hard! By contrast, Koyamaichi white steel, PM-V11, A2 ... all hone pretty easily - in under a minute. If a chisel is taking longer to sharpen than that, then you are either not using matched media or not using an effective sharpening strategy, or both.
Incidentally, Narex are Chrome Manganese steel, not Chrome Vanadium. Sorry, that's being picky. But it is not when I suggest that you should dull the edges of your Veritas chisels if you do not like them sharp. I did. Veritas have left them sharp for the user to customise. And narrow lands do make a difference when paring dovetails and detail work in my book. Good Japanese chisels are designed to be honed quickly - the hollow back facilitates this, as does the soft lamination to the cutting steel on the bevel (think of it as akin to a hollow grind). Do you hollow grind or use secondary microbevels when sharpening? Reducing the honing area increases efficiency, and decreases sharpening effort and time.
It is difficult to evaluate what someone says about a specific chisel unless we also know how they go about the sharpening process. This is not intended as a criticism, but just as an illustration of this issue.
Regads from London
Derek
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overland said:
Several people have mentioned Japanese chisels here. I've never used one, but now I'm intrigued. It would be interesting--and useful--for a few more suggestions about which brands to look for.
I have a list of all the Japanese tool dealers that I know of who can communicate in English here: http://giantcypress.net/resourcesMy usual advice in terms of sorting out which Japanese chisel to get is to talk to the various Japanese tool sellers. Tell them what you’re looking for in a chisel, and ask for a recommendation and why they recommend that particular chisel. One of the sellers will give you an answer that resonates with you. Buy a chisel from them. Overall, Japanese chisels that are above the super-cheap range perform well across the board. The really good ones have that magic combination of great edge retention with easy sharpenability. For me, I have the Fujihiro brand chisels made by Imai. You can get them from Hida Tool.
Hail St. Roy, Full of Grace, The Schwarz is with thee.
Blessed art thou among woodworkers, and blessed is the fruit of thy saw, dovetails.
Holy St. Roy, Master of Chisels, pray for us sharpeners now, and at the hour of planing.
Amen.
$300 is a lot of Money!
giant Cypress: Japanese tool blog
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I'm no expert, but using chisels , three things stand out for me. First was thin blades, a handled cold chisel is not a precision instrument. That description fits most chisels. Next is handle shape, when I picked it up, I felt like I was Errol Flynn doing battle on a pirate ship. It was instantly part of me. Countries all have their ideal shape, American, English, London, German, for me it was what the Swedes did with wood. A Swedish made handle on a English Footprint chisel.
If it's dull, sharpen it.
A man of foolish pursuits
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