Posts: 857
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2007
Hey,
I'm putting up new lights in my shop/garage. The current stuff is, well, wrong and not to code. So I'm putting a new dedicated circuit in the sub panel I recently put in the garage just for the lights and garage doors.
I plan on six lights, controlled by a light switch near the panel and each fed through an outlet. Switched outlets will just make life easier in this situation. But I also REALLY need to replace the outlet in the ceiling that powers the garage doors (also done incorrectly). Obviously, I don't want that single outlet controlled by the light switch too.
I know I can run individual 14/2 cable for everything, but that would mean putting some 14/2 cables in parallel in some areas.
Is it possible to use 14/3 cable instead for those areas (I have extra sitting around too)? I would branch the hot wire from the sub panel so one wire in the 14/3 goes through the switch (black wire) and the other bypasses the switch (red wire). That would give me two 120v conductors in parallel in some areas.
See the attached picture to see what I'm thinking. The red wire would continue uninterrupted through those first couple outlet boxes. And I left out neutral and ground for clarity.
Thanks,
Tyler
Posts: 1,529
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2007
I would not do it. You now get into the code about sharing a neutral and the different breaker you will need. Plus use 12 wire on the outlets and put on a 20 amp breaker. Do yourself that favor. It is a garage. And if it is a shop too then more than one circuit for sure. You need a plan to see what tools you are talking about and where you placing them.
John T.
Posts: 1,590
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Manassas, VA
JTTHECLOCKMAN said:
I would not do it. You now get into the code about sharing a neutral and the different breaker you will need. Plus use 12 wire on the outlets and put on a 20 amp breaker. Do yourself that favor. It is a garage. And if it is a shop too then more than one circuit for sure. You need a plan to see what tools you are talking about and where you placing them.
The code about sharing a neutral doesn't apply since it's not a separate circuit. It would certainly be acceptable to power that outlet from the nearest switched outlet, but he doesn't want to do that because he doesn't want the garage door opener switched. Provided the common (red) wire is just nutted in the initial box to the hot lead, it's on the same phase and it's not a multiwire branch circuit.
The neutral for the circuit is already going to be shared (at the point of the original switch). What you are looking to do is have an unswitched hot on the same circuit as a switched hot connected in the same box, which is acceptable to code (and I can pretty much guarantee it's done in every house in the country).
I think this is fine.
Posts: 1,590
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Manassas, VA
Also, I should point out this is effectively no different from how wiring is done to a duplex receptacle when one outlet is switched and one is not.
Posts: 703
Threads: 0
Joined: Dec 2002
I all ways put lights on there own circuit, as a matter of fact in my shop two circuits. Hate the idea of popping a breaker and being in the dark.
Posts: 857
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2007
Well explained FS7. It's all one circuit and I'm just branching off a separate arm early in the wiring so it's not switched. Everything has to use the same neutral when it goes into the sub panel anyway, whether I use 14/2 everywhere or incorporate the 14/3. And yes, the red would be nutted to the black hot in the first box, so everything is the same phase/circuit.
John, this is a dedicated circuit only for lighting and the garage door openers, so I think 14awg/15amp will work fine. In addition to the lighting circuit, I have (or will have, as I'm still working on it) four 20A 120V circuits, about 4 20A 240V circuits, and one 30A 240V circuit in the garage when I'm done, so I'm not worried about needing to use these ceiling-hung electrical boxes to power anything else. I figure those circuits should be ample for a one-man, two-car garage shop for a hobbyist. I also don't like running tools off the lighting circuits so you don't lose lighting when/if you trip a breaker.
Glad to hear this should work! I couldn't think of any reason that it wouldn't, but wanted to verify that there wasn't some obscure code that said otherwise.
Thanks!
Tyler
Posts: 848
Threads: 0
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Central MA
A couple of thoughts;
Personally, I don't want anything with a motor in it plugged into the same circuit as my lights so that I don't lose my light when the motor goes T.U.
Also, if you're shooting for a code compliant installation I'm pretty sure that those outlets for the lights are going to need to be GFI protected since they are in a "garage".
Posts: 290
Threads: 0
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Rochester, MN
If you truly wire it the way you have in the picture you have a lot of connections in the box in the middle on the left. You will need to watch the "wire fill" codes for the size of the box. It might be better to branch off to the opener outlet and the right side from different boxes on the left instead of from the same one. Hopefully that makes sense.
Posts: 2,949
Threads: 0
Joined: Dec 2003
BrentDH said:
If you truly wire it the way you have in the picture you have a lot of connections in the box in the middle on the left. You will need to watch the "wire fill" codes for the size of the box. It might be better to branch off to the opener outlet and the right side from different boxes on the left instead of from the same one. Hopefully that makes sense.
I was thinking about the fill issue also.
I would run the wires for the opener from either the breaker box or the switch. Just use 14/2 cable everywhere.
If the lights are all in the ceiling, I wire from the switch to one light to the next to the next ...
And test everything before you close up the walls.
Economics is much harder when you use real money.
Posts: 857
Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2007
Yeah, they probably need to be GFCI. I've been wiring all the 120V circuits with a GFCI outlet as the first outlet to provide that. I'll probably have to do the same with the lights, although I guess I'll have to provide a separate GFCI outlet for the un-switched outlet. Is there an exception for dedicated circuits like this?
I'll have to check the wire fill for the boxes.
The layout is the way that it is due to the garage layout. All the walls/ceiling in the garage have drywall, and there are bedrooms above the garage. The joists are parallel to the lines of lights in the picture, and there is a support beam (also under drywall) that I can run a romex cable along where I connect the right and left sides. I may be able to split the right and left sides at the switch also.
Tyler
